"Look at the legalized adultery we call divorce. Men marry one wife after another and are still admitted into good society; and women do likewise. There are thousands of supposedly respectable men in America living with other men's wives, and thousands of supposedly respectable women living with other women's husbands." - R. A. Torrey From R.A. Torrey's book How to Pray, pages 94-95

R.A. Torrey (1856-1928) was a very well-known Christian writer, evangelist, pastor, graduate of Yale University, and was also the superintendent of Moody Bible Institute for 19 years.

TRINITY BARS THE DIVORCED.; No Remarriage in the Church or Any of the Chapels.

The clergy of Trinity Church announced yesterday that under no circumstances will divorced persons be married by any of the clergy of that Episcopal parish, nor will such marriages be permitted either in the church at Wall Street and Broadway or in any one of the parish's eight chapels. The announcement was as follows:
View full article New York Times
December 7, 1904, Wednesday

Frequently Asked Questions, Comments and Arguments about Marriage Divorce & Remarriage


 Is Remarriage Adultery A One Time Act or Continuous Adultery?

Comment/question
In the Bible, “Commits adultery” is a one time act, not a constant state.
Response
I disagree with you and so does the Greek...........

 

Here is the Lexicon's definition of committeth adultery:

 

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 3429 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
moicavw from (3432)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Moichao 4:729,605
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
moy-khah'-o Verb

 

Definition
to have unlawful intercourse with another's wife, to commit adultery with

 

King James Word Usage - Total: 6 commit adultery 6 KJV Verse Count Matthew 2 Mark 2

 

If one has unlawful intercourse with ANOTHER'S wife, how can that be the adulterers wife? If the act of marriage is ADULTERY, how can it then be a lawful marriage?
Comment/question
By that definition it still does not imply that it is a constant state of adultery.
Response
If you are having unlawful relations with another man's wife, how is that NOT a constant state as long as one STAYS with that other man's wife?

 

Also, we have Romans 7:2-3 in which Paul said that a woman who marries again while her husband is still alive will be called an ADULTERESS. This does not signify that her remarriage was one act of adultery...........she is branded an adulteress............while her husband lives (because she would be in an illicit relationship should she remarry).

 

Comment/question
The question remains then, Would you agree HE (God) would not put together something He calls adulterous/sin?
Response
I think this is ultimately the point that each of us needs to understand. Some of us have discerned from the Word of God that He will NOT join together ANY relationship that HE (not us) calls sin----whether it be the sin of fornication, adultery, homosexuality, incest, bestiality, etc.

 

Some believe and teach that God will not join MOST of those sinful relationships, but that He WILL join "SOME" forms of adultery. For me, this is just not supportable with the Word of God. Some teach that in the case of remarriage(which Jesus calls adultery because the former bond has not been dissolved), all one has to do is confess the sin of adultery, then the relationship is THEN joined by God as ONE. Again, no scripture to support such a viewpoint.

 

The problem: what about all the people who do NOT confess their adultery? Are they STILL in the sin of adultery? If they never confess, will they die with God seeing them married to another(the covenant spouse)?

 

In addition, as has been noted time and time again on this thread, why is remarriage adultery in a whole different category? Why is it that only confession is necessary, yet in ALL other illicit relationships, the RELATIONSHIP needs to end as a FRUIT or repentance? If I'm in an "extra-marital" relationship (adultery), then true repentance would entail me LEAVING that relationship and returning to my covenant spouse. However, in remarriage adultery, one does NOT have to leave their adultery, but they can confess the sin and STAY with the NON-COVENANT person they are with. They say that because their other spouse(covenant) may have "moved on" (committed adultery also), they should stay in their current relationship. However, when presented with a "standing" spouse waiting for the erring to turn from their adulterous remarriage, they have no real argument concerning the nature of repentance in such cases.

 

The fact is, scripturally speaking, the erring is IN adultery----not WAS in adultery. The one standing is aligned with God and His Word. The one erring in TRUE repentance, would forsake their adultery and return home to the one "standing" in the covenant made with the other person AND GOD.

 

Again, it all come down to WHO God sees one joined to? If HE did not join two as One(in a covenant marriage), it means THEY joined themselves together----in the flesh.........and they ARE in sin until they forsake that sin. Scripture is clear that there are different "joinings"...........one is in regards to sexually illicit unions and the other is in regards to that which God joins together(lawful marriage)---until death separates it.

 

Comment/question
My husband just got born again a few months ago. He could NOT have received Gods grace, mercy and freedom from the bondage of addiction if we were living in a continual state of adultery.
Response
That is not true. EVERY person who becomes born again is entrenched in some sin or another. The Lord doesn't wait until we are "sin free" before He will 'deliver' us.

 

What is true is that the Lord is merciful many times to deal with one sin at a time, but that doesn't mean the ones He hasn't yet addressed are not sin.......they are just "unknown" to the person as of that point. This is true for all of us. Most all people who come to saving faith in Jesus and don't know all their sins, still practice sin, yet the Lord's Grace is extended.

 

Comment/question
Divorce and remarriage is NOT adultery, unless the divorced person - that is, not the Plaintif but the Respondent - remarries. Then both he or she and his or her spouse are committing adultery, because, the person who committed adultery first, when they were still married to their first spouse, is the person who should remain unmarried as a punishment for their sin
Response
(name deleted), that is not what Jesus spoke. How do you fit that reasoning in with Paul's teaching that it is not due to punishment that a woman is prohibited from remarrying, but because the BOND of marriage to a first husband remains intact until that husband dies? (Romans 7:2-3, I Corinthians 7:39) I think in order to say that one is "free" to marry again, they have to show biblical evidence that the marriage bond is dissolved in the eyes of God........and if that be the case, then ALL parties would be free to remarry. "Punishing" a person and yet saying a person is a partaker of God's Grace and forgiveness is completely at odds---at least to my thinking on what true Grace and forgiveness is.

 

Comment/question

ONLY if there is GENUINE repentance and a change of course by the one who broke the marriage covenant, is there the slightest glimmer of hope for a meaningful reconciliation, but, even that cannot be at the beck and call of others. Broken hearts take time to mend.

Response
Exactly, yet what you would say is OK with the Lord (remarrying another while one has a living spouse) flies in the face of what you just spoke above. To remarry says that I WILL NOT allow healing to occur with the possibility of RECONCILIATION with the one God joined me to----the offense is just too great and I am not willing to wait until they come to full repentance. I would ask this: is THIS the mind/heart of Jesus Christ toward the sinner? Does He wash His hands of us BEFORE the day of judgment?

We want to demand time to HEAL from hurts, bitterness, anger, etc (some of which are very sinful things to deal with), but concerning the "sinful" one, we don't want to allow time for repentance---full and genuine, to take place. We want to get on with life. If we grab hold of this mindset, are we walking in the light---as HE is in the light?

One more thing to ponder: What better person than one who is called by His name, to stand in the gap (intercede) for the one HE joined them to when they sin (whatever that sin may)? Is that not a reflection of Christ towards His Body?

 

Comment/question

Many times those who don't believe in divorce say they are bound to uphold their vows and will not break them. It is clear however, that they are only adhering to "one" of those vows - till death do part. The rest of the vows, are put down. How many of the bound but freed support their spouses financially even after a second marriage? How many continue the physical relationship, making themselves available to the remarried spouse? I think if we are honest very few if any actually uphold those vows.

Response
I know people on both sides of the fence concerning having relations with one God has joined you to while they are continuing in adultery (whether through extra-marital relations or through a remarriage). Some feel that they SHOULD not deny the one God joined them too, though their spouse is continuing in sexual unfaithfulness by being with another person. It is THEIR spouse---divorce or not/ remarriage or not. Their spouse does not belong to the other person they are committing adultery with.

Others feel it is ok to deny when the unfaithful partner refuses to repent from their adutlery-----but they do not REJECT the partner in full, only that part of the relationship. The do continue to pray for the erring spouse that they would come to a place of repentance and restoration of the marriage (I Cor. 7:10-11).

We must remember that those that DO choose to have relations with their ONE FLESH are not committing adultery. The other woman/man in the picture that has joined themself to another's spouse is the one committing adultery. They are the "third party"............one who is defrauding their brother/sister and is not walking in the second great commandment: Love your neighbor. If one does love their neighbor, they will not involve themself with a person who has been joined by God to another. They will find their OWN husband/wife.

 

Comment/question

Any woman who would sleep with her former remarried husband, has to do some serious brain-washing to not believe she has just committed adultery herself.

Response
Again, it would be the new "wife" who is committing adultery in the Lord's sight, not the ONE FLESH wife. The new "wife" separated what God joined together and she will be held accountable for that if she continues to dwell with another woman's husband. Paul was very clear that every woman was to have her OWN husband, not another woman's husband and every man was to have his OWN wife, not take another mans' wife as his own.

 

Comment/question

It would seem "till death do part" is considered the most important vow while the things that actually make a marriage can be dispensed with in these cases.

Response
1 Corinthians 13 should be what is in view here. We, as Christians, are called to LOVE our spouses............whether they are with us or not with us, til death do us part, we are called to walk in I Cor. 13. Many are trying to do just this-----while their spouses remain in unrepentant sin with a partner in adultery. THIS is loving "in good times and bad"..........this is longsuffering love, this is true agape love----

 

Comment/question

Scripture teaches if you break one law you are guilty of breaking the whole thing. So the soul that says, "I didn't fulfill any of my other duties, but I didn't divorce my spouse!" doesn't seem like a place to claim brownie points!

Response
ah, you are right. just because one doesn't divorce doesn't mean they are loving their spouse as they should. However, just because one is not doing what they should be doing, does not give the other license to throw out the entire marriage itself and seek a partner in adultery to replace the person God joined them to.

 

Comment/question

The fact is that even though some who are divorced claim to not recognize the second-marriage in their minds, they do so in practice. By their actions, they show they really believe different than what they say.

Response
No, you are incorrect. Have you ever read the Early Church Father's writings----the Antenicene to be exact? There is one writing (before 100ad) written by the Pastor of Hermas. He deals exactly with the issue of a spouse who is committing adultery. He says that the "innocent" one may divorce such an unrepentant one, but they are not free to marry, or else they would too be guilty of adultery.

This is what the early church believed. Divorce was separation of bed and board, not a dissolving of the marriage. What he wrote aligns perfectly with what Paul said the Lord commanded those who departed. They remained unmarried OR reconciled with their spouses. So, those spouses who choose not to have relations with the one God joined them to are not acting any differently that what was understood by the Early Church to be the correct response to an adulterous spouse.

 

Comment/question

When Paul spoke in Romans concerning the Gentiles without the law he says that though they didn't have the law, when they upheld any part of it, they show the law is written in their hearts. In the same way, anytime the free but bound, walk in accordance to what is expected when dealing with a married couple (not offering themselves sexually to the former spouse, not supporting the household of the former spouse, etc.) they show that the law is written in their hearts. They know it would be wrong even though they claim to still be the true spouse of the departed one.

Response
You are biblically inaccurate. Such a person who DOES claim to be the rightful spouse is merely speaking the Word of God in truth. Those who have joined themselves in adultery do not want to believe what the written Word of God says though. They would rather turn to the reasonings/laws of man to justify their evil deeds.

 

Comment/question

You will also understand why some remarriages take place and why they are amazingly blessed by God. You will understand how some remarriages are great reflections of the relationship of Christ and His church and serve as a real light to the world and bring true honor and glory to God.

Response
Blessed? I do believe God's MERCY (not blessings) are upon many such remarriages---as well as many other sinful relationships. I know quite a few remarriages in which the persons have come to see their adulterous state and repented (have forsaken) those relationships. God's MERCY was there for them to see it and have the power to flee the sin. His blessings came AFTER they decided to follow Him in forsaking their sin. Many try to justify remarriage based on "outward" appearances, yet this is opposite of what Jesus directs us to do. He tells us to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment (based upon not what we see, but what we KNOW to be truth). In His Word we also find that the WICKED seem to prosper.............and God's people seem to suffer...............yet we know---by His Word, that this is only for a season and we are not to judge such things by OUTWARD appearances, believing that because someone "appears" to be blessed, that surely God's blessings must be upon them.

 

Comment/question

We need to understand the higher principles of life that I mentioned earlier. This is not about selfishness or marrying for convenience. I think that is an insult to all those who tried all they could to save their marriages under the worst conditions and have it still end up in divorce.

Response
Many walk in ignorance of the Truths found in the Word of God and in understanding HIS heart/Will..........and that many times is why some enter into adulterous marriages----not out of outright rebellion, but because they knew no better and just followed other's actions. For them, when they come to the truth, it is very painful..........because they truly DO love Jesus, yet did not really seek HIS will for their lives. Those I do not worry so much about as they, when they come to truth, will rectify their disobedience, because they DO love Jesus more than self. Unfortunately, there are many who DO see what Jesus says, but will defiantly go their own way, even trying to justify their evil deeds, using/twisting the Word of God to do so. These I worry about---eternally speaking.

 

Comment/question

When you ask if they get to keep their spouses once they have divorced wrongly and married another, my answer would be yes.

Response
Wow, you are saying that you can keep that which does not belong to you. That speaks volumes to me! 

As (name deleted) has shown, using the definition of adultery............Jesus is saying that when someone marries another's spouse, they are joining with one who is not their own.

How can one then be married to one that is not their own? They can't. They are having relations with one who belongs to another. I have seen time and again, those who for their own gain, CLING to Deut. 24, but reject the other "laws" Moses gave. Why? Because they want to desparately keep what does not belong to them. They have hated their neighbor, defrauded their brother/sister, and do not want to turn from this. They want to acknowledge that what they have done is covered by the Grace of God. They want to label a covenant marriage as a sin that can be repented of. The thing is that the covenant marriage(the one God joined) is not a sin----the sin lies with the divorce and if applicable the remarriage. Those are the only two things that need to be repented of.

If one is divorced and not wanting to reconcile, they should repent of this mindset and ask the Lord for the heart to pray for and desire to reconcile what God joined together. If one/both of the parties have remarried, they need to acknowledge they have joined themselves to someone who does not belong to them, forsake the sin of adultery, and ask the Lord to work for reconciliation.............and if that is not possible, for the strength to live for Him in their singleness..............

 

Comment/question
Now, don't get it wrong. I'm not saying anyone who has remarried has stolen another's property although that may be the case in some scenarios, but what I am saying is that it's not always true that God requires one to give back, even if it was really stolen.
Response
Try to explain that one away with scripture.

Comment/question
Remarriages will occur and God knows it and blesses it.
Response
Again, try to explain/prove that statement with scripture.

Comment/question
Someone said earlier that the blessing is really God's mercy. Great! God's mercy is a blessing because God showing mercy means that although you have done wrong and perhaps a great wrong (divorced unjustly and remarried illegally)
Response
His mercy is, that in such cases, the adulterer/adulteresses are not stoned, but are give opportunity to forsake their sin............that is God's mercy. He does not bless what He calls sin.

 

Comment/question
Right, wrong, evil or good, once they marry, it's done!
Response
Explain that to Jesus, since he calls the next union, adultery. I guess you feel God does not know what He's talking about, eh?

 

Comment/question
 For those who believe the Bible teaches that staying remarried following divorce means one is constantly in an adulterous relationship, I have some questions. If one of your parents had been married before, then divorced, and has now been married to your other parent for over 40 years, what should the response of the (adult) child be regarding things like anniversaries? Is it sinful to recognize the anniversary because you are "celebrating" a sinful relationship?

I am reposting these questions above because I think they got lost in the shuffle. Also, I will add some more questions. If both parties from the first marriage have remarried (and remained in their respective remarriage relationships for over forty years), do you believe that both parties should divorce their current spouses and try to be reconciled to one another? I realize that many of you believe those second marriages should never have happened, but the fact is, they did. I don't think anyone involved has ever thought that they were now living in an adulterous relationship. But suppose they come on this thread and become convinced that the second marriage relationship is an adulterous one. Then should they both divorce the partners they have been with for over forty years and reconcile to one another?
Response
I know of a woman who has been "standing" for the restoration of her marriage for over 35 years---he is remarried many years and has a daughter with his 2nd wife.........I also know of another woman whose husband left her and their 2 young boys in her early twenties--he also remarried. She is now in her early 40's.........She still wears her wedding ring and is waiting for her husband to come to repentance and have her family restored. There are MANY, MANY of the same stories.

You are bringing back the point of what I said in my last. People mostly focus on the sinful relationship (adultery) and how breaking that off will hurt those involved---and how surely that can't be God's will. What about the RIGHTFUL spouse (in God's eyes) who is STANDING for the restoration of their covenant marriage/family? These questions are why we NEED to focus only on what God's Word says about marriage----which ones are lawful to Him and which ones are not, and act in accordance with His Word in regards to repentance/forsaking sinful relationships.

For me, in regards to celebrating anniversaries and such of close family members that are in adulterous marriages, I could not partake in the celebration. That would be hypocritical of me, knowing/believing what I do now, wouldn't it? I would, in essence, be celebrating a sinful relationship. It would be akin to me going to someone's "housewarming" party who is not married, but living in fornication. I would not celebrate them living together, just as I would not celebrate a couple who are living in adultery---per the Lord's Words.

I hope I answered your questions. I know how easy it is for a post to get "lost" in this discussion as there are so many posts!!!! If I didn't answer something, please ask again and I will be happy to answer.

 

Comment/question
If he has remarried, he is not committing adultery with his current wife. I don't believe he still belongs to his first wife.
Response
"I believe............I don't believe"....................it matters not what we "believe/don't believe"..........it matters what the Lord said. He said to enter into another marriage after a divorce was adultery. You say, no it is not. Adultery means the person one is involved with is NOT their spouse. You say, they are the rightful spouse. Sorry, I have to believe Jesus said what He meant and meant what He said. If a remarriage was LAWFUL, one would not commit adultery by joining with that person.
Comment/question
Since he has married again, that ends the hope of reconciliation as I shared before. If he had not remarried, then I would still believe the divorce ended the marriage but they could still be reconciled.
Response
Again, if the marriage is adultery, it is not a lawful union----it is adultery, and adultery CAN and SHOULD be forsaken. We can try and put a "legal" stamp on a relationship, but God is not mocked. When two come together in "relations" in such a situation, what the Lord looks down and sees are two people profaning the covenant of marriage and two people who are sinning against Him and their lawful spouses.

Comment/question
God calling anyone's former spouse to wait for another divorce to occur so their family can be restored. Again that is really extra-biblical stuff.
Response
No, not "extra-biblical", very biblical: I Corinthians. 7:10-11.

 

Comment/question
That may well be but the reality is that people divorce and remarry.
Response
Yes, the reality is that many are committing sin, sexual and otherwise. Just because this is the case does not mean God "winks" at it and excuses it. If Jesus said remarriage was adultery after a divorce takes place, it is because the divorce did NOT dissolve the marriage God joined together. It is absolutely no different than two people have an extramarital affair-----no different. One cannot use ANY NT teachings on marriage, divorce, remarriage to prove otherwise.

Comment/question
As I said, anything can happen from the point of divorce on if no one remarries. Again, the point is that if one of them does remarry, there is no more "intact" for the first marriage. The marriage is over and they must, if they want to live in truth, deal with that fact.
Response
No, the marriage is not over. Again, if Jesus doesn't acknowledge a divorce as dissolving a marriage, then any relationship entered into----though it is "legal" by civil standards, it is adultery to the Lord, because they are still bound to their covenant mate.

Comment/question
This teaching is not about those families that are waiting while both are not remarried even though divorced. This doctrine is trying to speak to those whose ex-spouses have remarried and to those who have remarried with Biblical permission. If the family remains physically intact and the offender repents and the family is healed, fantastic! I'm sure we all know this happens but when one divorces and remarries, that is different. You want them to act as if they are still married as if that will make it true but it does not.
Response
When any of us who hold to this speak/write on this issue, it is with hope that marriages will be SPARED from going down the road of divorce and later remarriage. We don't want people to find themselves in opposition to the Lord's Word. Finding oneself in adultery and having to rectify it is not an easy task. If they would have worked on their first marriage, prayed, obeyed the Lord, etc, instead of "moving on", they would have been spared the heartache of repentance and they would have spared the third party and all children involved, heartache.

Again, and I will keep saying this: If Jesus doesn't acknowledge a divorce as dissolving what HE joined together---------then the marriage IS still intact and the person who remarries is committing adultery with this third party...........and the third party is committing adultery with someone else's husband/wife.

 

Comment/question
So is your stance of Biblically-allowed remarrieds living in "continual adultery" or "perpetual sin".
Response
Again, I cannot speak for others in this, but the truth is that Jesus calls such relationships adultery (because said participants belong to others in the Lord's eyes). Unless one can prove by the Word of God that such relationships change into lawful ones, they we must believe the Lord when He labels such as sinful. Many want to say that confession changes adulterous unions into lawful ones, but that "process" does not work with any other illicit relationship. The fact that the laws of the land have put their stamp of approval on said relationships does not change the Lord's view on them.

Comment/question
You would be wise to remember that NO marital union should be held above the value and worth of the people IN them. Those that insist on doing so are marriage idolators. IMO, Jesus was more concerned about people than offices or states of matrimony ..... and His covenant is FIRST extended to the people He came and died for and rose again for.
Response
You are right. The Lord is concerned about the people in covenant marriages, yet, please do not minimize the importance of covenant marriage as the Word of God likens this relationship to Christ and the Church. It is IN this covenant relationship that we LEARN to LOVE as Christ loves. It is in THIS relationship that we portray to a lost world what a relationship with Jesus should be like----if one or both are following the Lord in how they relate to their covenant spouse.

Comment/question
So is your stance that one should divorce an existing spouse in order to seek to remarry a first spouse .... even if that first spouse has also remarried. So, we could conceivably have TWO marriages destroyed by yet another divorce .... heaping sin upon sin. If your MDR concepts were widely accepted and applied, then millions of Christians throughout the generations would be held to damaging and abusive and lonely existences.
Response
Many are holding to lonely existences, --BECAUSE they are being obedient to the Lord and their love of God is more important than this present life---which is but a puff of smoke. Jesus warned us that those who seek to save their lives shall lose it. Many who are "lonely" in this life shall be rewarded in the next because they chose rather to LOSE their lives for Christ's sake and His kingdom----remaining faithful in an unfaithful world. If you think many ARE faithful, ponder the words of Jesus: "when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith?" Many are not willing to day to die to self and live for Jesus...........yet, that IS what a True believer is called to do.

Comment/question
I pray that your hearts be softened ......
Response
It is my prayer that ALL of our hearts be softened so that we LOVE as Jesus loves. It is my prayer that those who are in sin will forsake their sin in repentance and that those who are crying out to the Lord because of forsaken covenants, will experience restoration and all involved be healed.

 

Comment/question
Come to think of it, there is NO worse of a personal attack than to claim that a Biblically divorced and Biblically remarried person is living in "perpetual sin" or "adultery".
Response
"Whosoever divorces and marries another commits adultery. Whosoever marries one divorced commits adultery."

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

I make no false accusations, but I will lift up the Word of God in hopes that "all will come to repentance"............and better yet, that many will not find themselves in this situation because they ignorantly followed the masses into their sin.............The temporal repercussions are hard enough let alone the eternal ones..

 

Comment/question

This is where the teaching about a divorce not dissolving a marriage comes in and where the belief that although divorced you are actually still married. Of course that leads to the remarriage adultery theory.

Response
A theory??? Jesus said in NT teachings that divorce does not dissolve what HE joins together, hence it is ADULTERY after a divorce for said parties to join with others.

If a divorce DID dissolve what GOD joined together, then it would not be adultery for said persons to marry others, would it?

 

You know what's really sad to me? It is that some continue to go to great lengths to justify adultery...........they ignore Jesus' very clear words on this issue of covenant marriage, trying their best to find some "wiggle" room. In the end, try as some may, they WILL find that there just is NO justification to take what God has joined together and come between that and claim those who do such things are then in "blessed" unions. When Jesus spoke of such unions, He did not label them as "blessed", but as sinful.

Comment/question

Understand this. I am simply posting what I have studied in the Word. Respond to me if you are refuting what I am putting out there with true Bible study. That is what I'm interested in.

Response
I don’t mind a good bible study............if it is with a heart to truly come to truth. I think I have put scripture upon scripture out there.........Jesus' very own words, matter of fact. That's why I find it very hard to take your "theory" comment. Jesus, by His own words, shows that divorce does not dissolve what He joins together. You can try and pull all the OT passages you like which "appear" to say otherwise, but the fact remains that Jesus spoke very CLEARLY on the issue. One cannot possibly commit adultery by remarriage if their previous one was dissolved, could they?

 

Comment/question

I Corinthians 6:9-11

9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Response
Let's take that further and quote what Paul also wrote in the same chapter farther down: verses 18-20: "18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.

19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body".

Comment/question

So, in light of that, you MUST agree with I Cor. 6:9-10. You see these people as "wicked", "adulterers", and in "continual sin". You have consistently maintained this errant position ever since I have seen you post .... here and elsewhere.

Response
Go back to the verses right before the ones you quoted: I Cor. 6:7-8----"Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren".

Then Paul goes on to tell them NOT to be deceived............that the unrighteous will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Paul warns the Galatian church of the very same thing: Gal. 5:19-21.

 

Comment/question

Now, Cindy, you are convinced that a Biblical remarriage amounts to "perpetual adultery" and that couple is sinning unless they divorce .

Response
Jesus said such unions are adultery. That means they are involved with someone else's spouse---having UNLAWFUL relations with them. Paul said that if a woman marries while her husband is still alive she shall BE CALLED an adulteress. Adulteress is a LABEL........it shows lifestyle. Paul also says in Rom. 7 that until the husband dies, the wife is NOT free to marry another. He is exactly in line with what Jesus spoke on the issue while He walked the earth.

Comment/question

..... and even seek to cause the divorces of the ex's, if they have remarried .... in order to return to what your group refers to as their "covenant spouse".

Response
It matters not if the other covenant spouse has joined with another----they too are in the sin of adultery. Just because two may agree to divorce/sin, that agreement does not null and void what God has joined together. God is the creator of marriage and HE alone determines how marriage is to be used. He has said that marriage endures until one of the covenant spouses dies. Only then, may the other one marry again (to one who is "free" to marry).

 

Comment/question

In this chapter, (1 Samuel 12) God called His people, under the king, to serve Him with their whole hearts. They were allowed to keep the king they chose and the king chosen for them by God.

Response
Wow, so you mean to tell me that if I am married to Billy Bob, then I get involved with Bucky on the side, even though it's adultery to God, I get to keep Bucky(the one I chose to sin with) AND Billy Bob(the one God chose for me)?? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................
Comment/question

No that isn't what I'm saying. Billy Bob will probably divorce you, go off and get married again. If he becomes a Christian your saying he should divorce his current wife and try to be reconciled to you. That is what I'm saying is wrong with this teaching. For the guilty perhaps I could go for it but for the innocent, it's entirely unjust.

Response
What if Billy Bob doesn't divorce me? What if he stays with me hoping I will someday give up my lover? Is God ok with me having BOTH men? Also, why do you differentiate concerning the "guilty"? Either a marriage is dissolved by a remarriage/divorce/adultery or it is not...........being the "guilty" party or innocent does not change whether an original marriage is intact or not in regards to "some" remarriages.

Comment/question

If you are married to Billy Bob then of course you must repent of the adultery.

Response
By repent, you mean to forsake that sinful union, right?

Comment/question

But if you are divorced, and you married Bucky, it may be horrible to Billy Bob that the marriage born of adultery exist but there is still no biblical demand to divorce.

Response
Ah, but Jesus said that the new union was adultery, so the divorce did not dissolve the original marriage, did it? If it did not dissolve the original marriage, then wouldn't a "remarriage/adulterous union" be the same thing in the Lord's eyes as an extramarital affair---especially when one of the original partners (say the "innocent" one) wants the marriage restored?

Comment/question

Wonderful if Billy Bob doesn't want to give up on reconciliation

Response
Yes, because that would fulfill Billy Bob's vows in tthe Lord's sight concerning the marriage. Billy Bob would be walking out I Cor. 13 and would reflect the Lord Jesus Christ in his actions towards an erring/adulterous wife.

Comment/question

if you divorce him and marry your lover, Billy Bob should now move it along.

Response
The problem with that is that there is NO scripture which shows it ok for an adulteress to "move on" and then have that second relationship sanctioned while her first husband is alive. To the contrary, we have God's Word which states the EXACT opposite of what you speak---Rom. 7:2-3. WHILE her husband is alive, should she MARRIES another man, she shall be called an adulteress (label). There is absolutely NO indication that she will be known by any other name WHILE HER HUSBAND IS ALIVE. I find it very interesting that you say the marriage for life people are "adding" to God's Word because we believe true repentance entails forsaking what the LORD has called sin. You are the one adding to God's Word by saying what He calls sin, can be continued in and then "blessed" by God............the problem you have is that there is NO scripture to justify such a position.

Comment/question

If Billy bob divorces you and remarries, you have no claim when you decide to repent. You lost out! You also at that point need to move it along.

Response
No, scripture teaches that Billy Bob too will commit adultery if he joins with another woman. Scripture teaches that EVERY man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery (here is the all inclusive, PDC-----I noticed you placed GREAT emphasis on all inclusive terms). For those who continue to state that they take ALL scripture into account, I see the exact opposite. Those who teach remarriage adultery CAN be continued, are resting on 1 passage that is taken out of context. A man who divorces such a wife (even if she is repentant) is at odds with the Lord Jesus----who is ready to forgive ALL who repent and ready to reconcile them to Himself. What you are teaching is that man (especially saved man who is a REPRESENTATIVE of Jesus Christ on this earth) does not have to do as Jesus does, but instead can follow that which appeals to the FLESH instead.

Comment/question

Should you have married Bucky? No. But the fact remains that you did and that can be said of many who haven't come to Christ yet. I simply reject a second divorce as being the solution to this problem.

Response
You reject that because you must believe that although Jesus calls the second union adultery, you believe that new vows supercede the original vows, yes? You reject that Jesus sees this new union as adulterous, even though that is exactly how HE labels it.

Comment/question

When Jesus called these marriages adultery, He stopped right there. He didn't leave any instruction as to what to do. He told no one to divorce.

Response
So, because you think in such a manner, then you also believe it was AOK for the woman at the well return to the man she was living with.............because Jesus didn't give her exact instructions on how to handle that relationship???

Comment/question

The same is true of Paul. In all the marital issues that he dealt with, there is not one time he suggested that the remarried couple should divorce. It's just not there. It's been added to the Word and that's a real problem.

Response
No one has added anything to the Word. Jesus and Paul BOTH taught that we are to forsake (repent) our sin. Are you now saying that we should NOT forsake our sin as it is made known to us as such? That until we see every single particular situation addressed in detail, we don't have to forsake our sin, we can continue to practice those things the Lord calls sin.

Comment/question

There can be no doubt pain is involved. Both sides experience that. Those who have been hurt and those who have inflicted the hurt. Unfortunately the children do suffer as a result of the parents actions. That is just a fact. That doesn't mean however, that a second divorce will solve the problems.

Response
The problem that a Christian should be concerned with is not so much that actions he/she takes will improve their life/other's lives(solve their problems), it is that they are being obedient to the Lord by forsaking the sin they are in, no matter what the cost! Sometimes forsaking an adulterous unions does not "feel" pleasant, but the one who leaves their sin behind will walk with the assurance that all is well between them and the Lord---and there is NOTHING more important than that.

Comment/question

The issue I was addressing is whether it is biblical to divorce a second time. That is the point of the posting. I know you won't agree based on your stand but your response is not addressing the Scripture.

Response
Is is biblical? Yes. Read again Ezra 9-10. Do you discount THAT event, which very much more reflects this discussion (unlike the Sam. passage you quoted).

 

Comment/question

Sometimes it helps to see injustice when you deal from the perspective of the innocent (not sinless) spouse. For example, when dealing with a man whose wife left him for another man, divorced him and married her lover, I think it's easier to see how unjust this teaching is regarding this man getting remarried. What this teaching does is hold the innocent in bondage to the guilty until the guilty decides to change, if they decide to repent which may not happen at all. That's a problem.

Response
What I can see from your reasonings is that it is flesh based, not spirit based. We are called to LOVE those who hurt us............not retaliate, not fix our lives how we want them to be.............we are called to LOVE----especially those to whom the Lord joined us together. Again, Paul teaches that every man/woman is to have their OWN spouse, not someone elses. I know this is offensive for some, but I cannot help saying that what is going on in the church and world is nothing more than husband/wife swapping and that I am confident to say is reprehensible to the Lord and an affront to the marriage covenant relationship HE created.
 

Comment/question
All your doctrine is really doing is causing folks to stay in permanent separated states because they never divorce. They don't live together.
Response
It doesn’t matter if a civil divorce takes place or not. Divorce does not dissolve what God joined together. That is why remarriage is adultery. To stay in a permanent separated state is not the Lord's will either. If that does happen it means one or both are in rebellion to the Lord.

Comment/question
If you want to be single. Great!!!
Response
Yes, I Corinthians 7:10-11. "Remain unmarried or be reconciled".

Comment/question
If not, remarry as the Scripture tells us of the unmarried but this limbo thing is highly out of order whether it be legal (they didn't get divorced) or it be all in the mind.
Response
You are adding to the Word of God allowances that are just not there-----allowances that will cause your brother/sister to stumble (sin).

Comment/question
I guess I wonder what makes them adulterous. Maybe the issue is not whether the divorce dissolved the marriage or not. Maybe a clue comes from understanding what Jesus meant when he called those who looked for a sign an "adulterous generation". Was it the looking for a sign that made them adulterous? I don't think so. This is just a thought at the moment.
Response
You better get this down straight before you continue to counsel people that divorce dissolves marriages that God joined together. Making statements of fact, when in fact, you are not solidified on the issue is harmful at the very least.

 

Comment/question

“If it did not dissolve the original marriage, then wouldn't a "remarriage/adulterous union" be the same thing in the Lord's eyes as an extramarital affair---especially when one of the original partners (say the "innocent" one) wants the marriage restored?”

 

I'll get back to you on this one after I check out the above.

Response
Again, you need to study to show yourself approved BEFORE you speak that remarriage is merely a "one time sin of entrance". Until you can prove BY THE WORD OF GOD, that covenant marriages are dissolved by a divorce, you should not be teaching that.

 

Comment/question

But there are also many more scriptures that say that Jesus meets us in this place that we are in, so that where He is, we may be also.

Response
The passage you quoted is taken out of context. Jesus is speaking of a FUTURE time........a time when He will come again and gather all that are TRULY His (Eph. 1:10, II Thess. 2:1, James 5:7)............

Does He meet us where we are at while we have sin??? Absolutely, but He does not allow us to STAY in our sin if we belong to Him. He died that we may be FREE from the bondage of sin.

Comment/question

The Lord comes out of his place to punish …which means it is not His place…Isa is speaking of it as… being out of his place...to punish.

Response
Ah, and concerning those who profess to know Him, but continue in iniquity (lawlessness), He says He will cast them away (Matthew 7:21-24)

Comment/question

The way you are presenting the word…this is called judging according to the flesh…because there is witness that God does forgive the sin of adultery.

Response
You misrepresent me, as usual.  I DO believe there is forgiveness available to those who commit adultery----whether it is "secret" sin or "open" sin.............however, there is no indication in scripture that one can rightly confess Christ AND continue to practice lawlessness.

 

Comment/question

For example, the woman caught in adultery, the Lord forgave her and told her to go sin no more. But, to someone else that may mean that He forgives the adultery (the remarriage, so you call it) and you should have learned from your mistake and not go out and commit adultery again. Adultery is defined as sleeping with someone that is married or as you say, remarrying if your former spouse is alive, correct? Well, if I don't go out and sleep with someone whose married or if I'm married and/or if I don't go out and divorce my current spouse (remarried one) and marry someone else while they are alive, then I technically am not committing that sin again, right?

Response
There is a BIG gap in our understanding of the nature of adultery. It appears that you believe the adultery of a second marriage is just the entrance into such a marriage?

The big difference in our views is that those who believe all FIRST marriages are binding until death see the second marriage as null and void---scripturally speaking---unlawful, because one is already joined to another in the sight of God. The reason we see this is because one can't commit adultery with a person AND be lawfully married(remarriage) to that same person at the same time. The very definition of adultery is that one is joining with SOMEONE ELSE'S SPOUSE. When does the covenant spouse cease being the lawful spouse in God's eyes----at death (Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39, Mal. 2:14-17).

When Jesus says to "go and sin no more", He meant for her to stop committing adultery----based upon her PRIOR acts/relationships that were adulterous. What you are saying is that relationships Jesus deems as adulterous, He now gives permission to enter back into those relations as long as one has confessed their sin. The problem with this thought is that confession NEVER changes the nature of a relationship. All confession is doing is coming into agreement with God, that what He has said is sin, is sin. If He says a "marriage" is adultery, then in TRUE repentance, we also say such a "marriage" is adultery. When we walk out that repentance (show forth "fruit" of that), we not only confess such a relationship is sin, we then forsake that relationship.

We do not believe every situation should have a different outcome when adultery is involved. To repent from adultery is to stop committing adultery with whoever one is committing adultery with----whether it is in forsaking an extra-marital relationship or a "legalized" unlawful marriage in God's sight.

 

Comment/question

I must admit, I've been lurking around this particular thread lately, and have been greatly fascinated. I am not married, but I have been very concerned about this fact, as I do intend to marry in the future and I want my union to be pleasing in the eyes of the Lord.

I would like to say to (Name Deleted) lastblast (CindyW), that your posts have been excellent, and have confirmed in scripture and Spirit what I have been sensing from the Spirit all along. .......................


..................I must say, about two years back I came to this reality, that there are possible thousands and thousands of CHRISTIANS living in adulterous relationships called second, third and fourth marriages that I truly became afraid and I stopped posting on the subject. But the Spirit of God kept urging me on, that this was true. I remember reading in Revelations about a church that taught adultry. And I was stumped that a church that named itself afte the living God would encourage adultry. Then it occurred to me that all of these second, third and fourth marriages were adulterous. ........

Response
Thank you for the nice words and also for sharing what the Lord has shown you. I am seeing more and more just how many of us are coming to the truth of the "ONE FLESH"............I praise God for that because I know that as more and more of us come to this truth, generations after us (should the Lord delay His coming), will benefit!

As I have stated before on this thread, my own family is racked with divorce/remarriage (even among confessing Christians), so when I started "seeing" what I now know to be truth, it was FRIGHTENING.........and did cause me to draw back----for a time. However, as you are now feeling, when the Lord shows you something of this great importance, there is a reason..........and we have to walk it out, pleasant or not.

 

Comment/question

Pay attention to the Scriptures that are often explained away, redefined or given some alternate meanings foreign to the audience and that will tip you off a little.

Response
There are at least 2 scriptures that are explained away in favor of allowing remarriage. The remarriage is ok camp can not, has not, been able to explain why it is that CHRISTIANS are permitted to remarry after a separation (I Cor. 7:10-11)in spite of what the Word of God says to the contary. Another passage which is poo-pooed is Rom. 7:2-3 which clearly shows that the original marriage bond endures until death----even in the face of a second marriage. We also see that Paul calls a woman who marries while her husband is alive, an adulteress. Some can say, "well Paul wasn't giving an in depth teaching on marriage there, he was using an analogy of Christ/law". The problem is that Paul's analogy was PERFECT. The other problem for the pro remarriage camp is that they cannot explain why it is that Paul used an adulterous woman in his analogy of lifelong marriage, if adultery/divorce/or remarriage dissolved what God joined together.

 

Comment/question

For the people who were asking "so, is it wrong for such and such a person to marry again", based on what was the outcome of a prior marriage, I would say this- Jesus said "Neither do I condemn thee go and sin no more" as a direct quote to someone in Screipture. Remember that story?

Response
Jesus said, "Go and SIN NO MORE"..........what you are teaching is that it is ok to go BACK into a sinful relationship. Again, NEVER has it been proven by anyone on this thread, nor anyone I can find, that the RELATIONSHIP Jesus calls adultery, somehow changes into a lawful marriage upon confession (acknowledgment of one's sinful condition in the Lord's sight). Confession NEVER changes the NATURE of a relationship. Either the relationship is being lived out wrong, or it is not. Adultery means one is joining themself with another they are NOT free to be with.

 

Comment/question
Now, if a LEGALLY divorced man takes a new wife, no matter how tender and faithful he is, he is tossed into the same sin bracket as a married man who cheats on his wife.
Response
This is where some have issue. Who says the man's first marriage is dissolved? The state who issues the divorce decree, the person or person's married, or God? Does a "civil" divorce dissolve what God has joined together? From Jesus' own words, it does not appear to be so. Why are we changing HIS definition of a form of adultery, saying these relationships ARE approved by God, when it appears scripturally they are not. Why do we think that such men should be put in leadership positions, when it appears God says "no". Whose judgment are we resting upon----His or our own?

 

I personally see a huge problem in the confessing church today which has led to where we are at presently. What we are doing is the same exact thing that the Cor. church was doing----in our desire to appear "full of grace" and "merciful" we are allowing sin in the camp........yet, is this ok with the Lord? (I Cor. 5)

 

Comment/question
When a man commits adultery and divorces His wife, was God in control? Could God have stopped the man? Is God not capable of answering the wife's prayers for reconciliation? Why does it happen? Explain this from Scripture please.
Response
There is God's perfect will and there is His permissive will. Many children are molested and violently murdered. Is God in control in those situations? Yes, He is, though why He allows such evil to continue is beyond our comprehension. Does He allow a spouse to stray and become guilty of adultery? Absolutely. He has given man free will and the right to exercise that free will within the bounds of His permissive will.

 

Will God answer a woman's prayers? Yes. Will He answer them in the timing and way SHE wants? Perhaps no...........and therein lies the problem. If something doesn't happen in our time frame, we think God has either "released" us(because something hasn't happened in the time we expected it to) or we get disheartened and believe He isn't listening. That is where His Word is essential. We are told to walk by faith, not by sight. We need to keep plugging along----no matter what we see or don't see, we know the Lord IS listening and doing a work----in HIS time.

 

Comment/question
There is a false teaching prevalent today that spreads the lie that you cannot marry again after divorce. Yet it is just a legalist lie born of modern Pharisees and many have been swept into it. May God have mercy on them
Response
See I Corinthians. 7:10-11, Matthew 5:32, Matthew. 19:9, Luke. 16:16-18, Mark. 10:12

Comment/question
How does adultery turn into a lawful marriage? Marriage is already lawful, but repentance is needed to restore your relationship to God IF you are in adultery of any kind.
Response
Jesus called a marriage after a divorce, adultery. Adultery is NOT lawful. Adultery means you are having unlawful relations with another person's spouse. You cannot be "lawfully" married and committing adultery at the same time.

 

Comment/question
How do you get out of that adultery? It depends on the adultery, but in all you repent of your sins to God and restore your relationship to God.
Response
How does one get out of adultery? They forsake the adulterous relationship. There is no other way and there is no NT scripture that teaches adultery "changes" into a lawful marriage, joined as "one flesh" by God. The true fruit of repentance of any sin is the forsaking of that sin............not confession and staying in a relationship Jesus calls adultery.

 

Comment/question
If you divorced previously and are now married again, you remain married. THAT is what is required of the consequences. You stay and stick it out. You do the right thing and be faithful to your spouse, be a godly spouse, and never attempt to go back to the former spouse. Because if you do go back to them then that action IS adultery.
Response
How would forsaking adultery and being reconciled with one's lawful spouse, be adultery? It is forsaking sin to return to, if possible, the "one flesh" God joined-----the "one flesh" Paul teaches will not be separated until death (Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39). Unless you can show scripturally that a second marriage after a divorce IS BLESSED by God and no longer adultery, your counsel is not of value.

 

Comment/question
And you don't always get the chance to restore what was lost in sin.
Response
This is very true and this is why many should think long and hard, first before they divorce and secondly before they enter into a second marriage that Jesus calls adultery.

 

Comment/question
How does a murderer repent and restore their relationship to God? They seek forgiveness, but they cannot restore life to what is dead. And neither can a man divorce his current wife and return to a dead vow
Response
And so it goes with those who commit adultery............sometimes they cannot get back what they lost.........That is the horrible effects of sin. However, just as God does not give a murderer carte blanche to continue his/her murders and be AOK with Him, He also does not allow His followers to remain in sexual sin without it affecting His relationship with us. If a person DOES depart, and desires to follow the Lord, Paul teaches they are to remain unmarried----even if reconciliation is not possible.

 

PS. Using children as a reason to continue living in adultery is just not biblical.........in the OT nor NT, so I'm not quite sure why that particular point keeps coming up in people's reasons for staying in a second marriage. If the "children" are such a concern, what about the children of 1st marriages? Why isn't it important to SHOW them what unconditional love is toward a spouse? Isn't that Christ's desire-----that we show our children who HE is through the choices we make? While ANY of us still have breath in us, will He forsake us due to sin?

 

Also, concerning Deut. 24:1-4, yes, the truth is that Jesus THREW this allowance out. The thing too that always gets ignored is that the woman was ALLOWED to remarry----without sin. In other words, she was NOT an adulteress. Her second marriage WAS lawful. However, Jesus' teachings on divorce and remarriage is VERY different. In the NT, a remarriage after a divorce is called ADULTERY. Paul in Rom. 7:2-3 taught that if a woman marries another while her husband lives, she shall be called an adulteress. Yet, if her husband dies and then she marries another, she will not be an adulteress. It's very clear that these passages in the OT and NT are VERY different.

 

Comment/question
1 Cor 7:10-11 and Luke 16:18 do not address adultery at all yet Jesus specifically calls it out in Matthew 5:32 and again in Matthew 19:9.
Response
But Paul DID address adultery in Romans 7:2-3. It doesn't dissolve the 1st marriage bond in the case of "extra marital" adultery or in the case of adultery committed by a remarriage.

 

Comment/question

I believe that there are two requirements that must be met before a remarriage is permitted. First, reconciliation must not be possible. I think the standards are pretty high on this one, but the most common reasons for this would be the death of a spouse, the remarriage of a spouse, or abandonment of an unbelieving spouse. Although I believe that almost always the spouse who initially remarries is in sin when they choose to remarry, I do believe that leaving the door open to reconciliation at this point is wrong because it would require the breaking of a new marriage covenant in order to restore the old one. I think this is really the heart of the passage in Deut. 24:1-4.

Response
Ok, let me ask you this: what is the difference in EXTRA-MARITAL adultery before/after a divorce and the adultery that occurs with a remarriage. The definition of adultery does not change........in both cases it means to have unlawful relations with someone who is NOT your spouse. In regards to the marriage vows taken in a remarriage, if they are in adultery that means they are joining with someone who is NOT their spouse. Do you believe taking a vow one is not free to take nullifies the original vow?

 

I don't agree with that interpretation of Deut. 24. The wife is not defiled by the second marriage, the defilement was supposedly BEFORE the original divorce took place. It was THAT reason, and the allowance for the man to put away this defiled woman, that he was not allowed to take her again---------OT law, not applicable for New Covenant peoples.
Comment/question

Second, I believe that their must be complete repentance and a history that reflects that repentance before even "dating", let alone remarrying

Response
What is repentance? Is it not only a heart change, but also forsaking sin? If one is in an adulterous relationship, doesn't true repentance require stopping the adultery?

Comment/question

I think the theologically difficult questions are: are there any other circumstances could make reconciliation impossible?; one, one extreme example that could fall in to this category would be a spouse who commits murder and is sent to prison for life. How long must someone be abandoned before remarriage is permitted? or, Who decides whether the spouse who is abandoning a marriage is a believer?

Response
I think scripture is pretty clear in this situations, though many will not follow God's commands, but would rather "reason" why they SHOULD be allowed to transgress the Lord's Word to them. The Lord commanded, through Paul, that in such cases a woman/man should REMAIN UNMARRIED or be reconciled. If a woman's husband is in jail, she needs to walk out Mt. 25 towards him...........not abandon him for another man. That is what we ALL have been called to-----as ministers of reconciliation.

 

Comment/question

He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. Mr 10:11

Here is the way I read this if any man divorces and marries another woman he would be committing adultery against her {his wife} because of the vows he made to her before God and he would be going against Gods original plan for marriage. One should have remorse for sinning {committing adultery} they should repent. If they do repent God will forgive them. Even adulterers. I do not see remarriage as a continual state of adultery like some of you do.

Response
Let's interpret this verse in a more simplified way. Instead of restating what you believe this to mean, let's just insert the definition of adultery into that and leave everything else the same.

"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another has unlawful intercourse"................and if we add that to what is said in Mt. 19:9 and Lk. 16:18, we get this: "Anyone who marries one put away has unlawful intercourse with another's wife"..........

So, I think it's plain to see, alongside what Paul teaches in Rom. 7, that the adultery consists of being in an unlawful relationship with SOMEONE ELSE'S spouse----in God's sight. We may "think" we are lawfully married to someone, but what does God say? He says in the very act of marriage, we are committing adultery----having unlawful relations with someone who is NOT our spouse. How can one then think this person IS their spouse, when the very definition of adultery disputes that this is the person one is married to? With that thought then, how would it be that one can STAY in such a relationship and believe themself to truly be walking out repentance?

Comment/question

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Mt 19:6

Again here I see this as one should not go against Gods original plan for marriage because the two become one so the two should not let any man-woman put the marriage asunder. But if they do there is still forgiveness here also.

Response
This is a command. If one does not abide by it, it does not mean God is obliged to dissolve what He joined together. He has already stated HOW a marriage is to be dissolved that He joined together (Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39). If one does not choose to follow the Lord's commands in this, they will commit adultery by joining with another----because they have not been freed by God to be with another.

 

Comment/question

Cindy,
I've noticed that you have asked this question a lot throughout this whole forum. No one has yet been able to say exactly when a relationship God calls sin, turns into one that is not sin.

Response
Yes, you are right and that is a scary thing because it leads us down the road to, "every man does what is right in his own sight"---which is what some in this forum are saying when they cannot give a definitive answer as to when adultery becomes a lawful marriage.

 

Comment/question

Not that it hasn't already been said before in this forum, but the (remarriage) covenant becomes binding at the point when someone commits themselves to a marriage covenant with another (even when doing so is in sin), but it is only not sinful when their has been repentance.

Response
You still have not provided any scripture to prove what you say is biblical truth. Can you explain how this new covenant supercedes the previous one? Do you feel that still applies when one of the spouses' is remaining faithful to the covenant they entered into-----until death? Do you feel that the other who IS sinning has somehow punched through a sin gauntlet and now is AOK in the Lord's sight? Do you have scripture that you can share with those who are remaining faithful, believing their spouses to be in the sin of adultery due to a new marriage, scripture that will clearly show them they are free from the bond of marriage due to their husband's new vow to another woman?

Comment/question

The validity of the marriage covenant made with the second, third, etc.. wives never seems to be called into question anywhere in the bible, and seems to have been valid the moment the covenant was made, even though these vows were clearly made in sin. The absence of any scripture (OT or NT) that clearly shows that the covenant of a second is considered invalid because it was entered into in a sinful way makes it very difficult for me to make that assumption. Because there are clear references in the bible relating to the prohibition of divorce that appear to be unqualified in regards to whether the marriage is a first or second marriage, I personally could not ever recommend that someone get a divorce.

Response
The problem you are facing is that you cannot explain how the first covenant is dissolved. It is VERY clear that Jesus does not recognize divorce as dissolving the first covenant. That means the first spouse is STILL the spouse when a remarriage takes place----that is why Jesus calls it adultery. You bring in OT examples. Let's look at those. In the ones you brought forth, did the first wives cease being a wife when more wives were brought in? No. As a matter of fact, God seems to place MORE value in the marriage on the FIRST wife.

In any case, we are not speaking of polygamy.........we are speaking of a second marriage after a divorce. You seem to think a new vow supercedes the original vow, but Jesus says the very opposite of that----He says those who enter into this new marriage are committing adultery. You can't be married to a person lawfully AND committing adultery with that person at the same time. Impossible.  

Comment/question

This is simply a false statement, I have provided many scriptural references throughout this discussion. You may choose not to interpret those scriptures as I do, but it simply not true to say that I did not provide any references.

Response
I don't mean to be wrongly offensive, but I don't believe you have provided ANY scriptures which state what you believe to be truth: that a second marriage nullifies the first marriage. To hold that view and speak it as truth, you must be able to show, from scripture that this is the case. To me, it is a very weak argument and not one that can be supported biblically. What we do have is Jesus declaring a second marriage as adultery. As I said, you can't be lawfully married in God's eyes AND also be declared guilty of adultery. The second can only be adultery because God see the first couple as still bound together, and the second NOT bound together by Him..........and if that be the case, then it is truth that repentance would mean forsaking the second relationship.

Comment/question

I did explain how I believe the covenant is dissolved; as I have stated I believe that a second marriage covenant is valid even if it began in sin i.e. adultery. The details and scripture references I have already given in previous posts. Again I accept your right not to accept my explanation, but it is untrue to say that I did not give an explanation.

Response
I too accept your right not to align with my views, but I still do not believe you have presented a good case for what you say you believe. You are putting all your belief on what we read in Mose's law........the problem you have is that you cannot explain how it is that David took back his wife AFTER she married another.........and there is absolutely no record of him sinning by doing this. He took her back because she did not belong to the second man she married. She was David's wife.......so in that case a "vow" did not dissolve the marriage...........same with the priest of Mal. 2:10-17. The biggest problem is that I don't see the "vow dissolves a previous marriage joined by God" taught anywhere in the NT either. All we see spoken of by Jesus(and Paul) is that the second union is sinful.

Comment/question

The point of showing the examples of polygamous relationships in the bible, was to show examples of marriages that began in sin, but in which the bible does not seem to question the validity of the marriage covenant. What you have not provided is an example where the bible makes clear that the covenant of a second marriage is invalid because it began in sin.

Response
So you believe polygamy is ok with God, then........and in such cases a second wife should be retained? Oh, and I just had this thought: If a second vow dissolves the first vow, how does that work with polygamy? Do you believe the first wife then is no longer a wife, but only the second?

Comment/question

Additionally, in the passage in Mt. 19 where Jesus state a clear exception i.e. marital unfaithfulness in regards to remarriage, you have simply ignored it.

Response
No, I've addressed my belief on that many, many times throughout this thread. I have stated time and again that Jesus could NOT have been giving permission to remarry due to adultery within a marriage because that would contradict everything else He taught, not only on marriage, but on forgiveness, reconciliation, TRUE agape love, etc. Not only that, but that rendering also conflicts with Paul's teaching that even in the face of adultery, the marriage bond survives until the death of one of the spouses. This is also what the early church believed/taught, and I believe they were rightly dividing the Word of Truth. The reformation church threw the baby out with the bathwater when dealing with what they perceived where RC practices, but actually the truth is that the VERY earliest churches all taught that marriage was until death (not just an "ideal", but actually was binding until death---even if a spouse was in unrepentant adultery).. I cannot find fault with this view, biblically speaking.

 

Comment/question

Marry again, God loves ugly. We all sin, Jesus Forgives, follow your heart with compassion. Good Luck.

Response
If one truly has GOD'S compassion in them, they will love the one they bound themselves to for LIFE-----for better or worse(that is inclusive of all sin), in sickness and in health (even in severe mental illness), for richer or poorer(even if being poor is a result of sin), TIL DEATH DO US PART (Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39).

You are teaching worldliness, which is opposed to the Gospel of God. Jesus will say one day to those who profess to know His name, yet practice sin: "Depart from me, you worker of iniquity(lawlessness)" Mt. 7:21-24. To tell someone to go again and marry again, when God has called such actions adultery, is to encourage one to sin.........and Jesus said, "woe, to those who cause my little ones to stumble(sin)"............True Godly compassion will lead a person to give counsel that lines up with the heart/Word of God........because we know, it is THERE true life is found.

Comment/question

If the person you married doesn't love you and states it, there is no question to whether you should stay or not, that is obviously a sign from God beyond scripture.

Response
It is a sign alright. It is a sign that the spouse who says such a thing NEEDS JESUS. If we HAVE JESUS, why should we then want to leave such a person? Should we not desire to minister LOVE to that person who does not have the love of Christ----the one God joined us to?

 

Comment/question

NO, what I am saying is that I don't accept your definition of what God says is adultery, and most Christians who have studied the same passages don't accept your definition as well.

Response
Jesus said "MANY will come to me in that day, saying "Lord, Lord"".............the "many" do not hold sway with me any longer. I am beyond accepting what is popular because I have seen what is popular many times is very far from God and Truth. If you reject my definition of adultery(which is based upon the greek lexicon's definition of adultery)-----what definition do you go by?

Comment/question

Many Christians who reject the idea of "cheap" grace you presented here, as I do, will still reject your teaching because it places a requirement of works for salvation based on a Law you have told us the bible teaches, but one that most do not see in scriptures.

Response
Maybe you can explain who the "many" are in Mt. 7:21-24? Just for the record, I do not believe "works" save us. I believe it is only trusting in the accomplishment of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection, that we can be saved, IF He is truly Lord in our lives. If we have not submitted to His Lordship in our lives (and that doesn't always mean instant obedience/perfection), they He is not our Lord/Saviour. He is very clear that only those who walk the "narrow" path will be saved. Many claim to be Christians, but are certainly not willing to walk the "narrow" path.......do you believe them saved?

Also, the truth is that there are people from both the Calvinistic camp as well as the Arminian camp who believe marriage is for life (not an ideal, but literally is binding for life)..........and they DO believe Paul when Paul said that the adulterer (as well as the many other lifestyle sins listed) will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Do you believe the adulterer WILL inherit the kingdom of God? Do you believe that one can continue in sin and claim eternal life while continuing in a lifestyle Paul taught was at odds with Christ? 

 

Comment/question

From what I have read in your posts it seems clear that you equate "knowing the scriptures" to mean understanding them as you do, am I missing something?

Response
Hmm, well, only God Himself can discern if someone "knows" and is being rebellious, or they know what the Word says, yet lack understanding concerning application/deeper spiritual truths. Personally, I cannot understand how a person can KNOW God's Word concerning making things right with a brother/sister before bringing an offering to Him, yet take another sister/brother's spouse as their own and think that ok before the Lord............but there again, they may know what the Word says on this, but do not UNDERSTAND the enormity of transgressing this. It seems the man in Malachi 2 fits this exactly.

 

Comment/question

Nobody has suggested that marriage should not be between one man and one woman for a lifetime, I believe we all agree that it should.

Response
The problem is some of us don't believe marriages 'SHOULD' be for life, we believe marriage IS for life. That is a HUGE difference in doctrine. Because we believe marriages ARE for life, how we view the solution is completely at odds with how you view the solution (actually you do not have a solution to for this sin. You can't say more people need to be saved and walk with the Lord, because MANY of the divorce/remarriages are occurring with those who profess to already be following the Lord).

Comment/question

What we don't agree on is YOUR solution to the problem when people have failed (sinned) because it does not align with God's word.

Response
If I "failed" and married my brother, is it ok to stay in that marriage??? Even if it's lawful in the country I'm in? Where do you draw the line on illicit relationships that are ok to be stayed in and not ok to be stayed in?

 

Comment/question

The problem here which will continue to be a problem is that you don't see divorce & remarriage as severing the marital bond. For those who are divorced and remarried, they are not sleeping with someone else's spouse. They are intimate with their OWN SPOUSE.

Response
You say that, but that is not what Jesus says. He says such people commit adultery. Unless you can show that what He says is NOT adultery, then it IS adultery.........it DOES mean that whosoever marries after a divorce or marries a divorced person is having UNLAWFUL relations with someone who is NOT their spouse. That IS the definition of adultery. It doesn't make me happy to say that as I have people in my life that I love dearly, but I cannot deny Jesus' words, no matter how much I care for those who are in sin.

Comment/question

Could this 1st marriage be the result of sin? Of course! That sin can disobedience to God (marrying someone God told you not to). That sin could have been greed. That sin could have been one drunken night in Las Vegas. That sin could also have been adultery. All these "sins" can result in marriage.

Response
None of those sins dissolve what the Lord has joined together.

Comment/question

Adultery like every other sin mentioned here can be forgiven but they are not required to divorce in order to obtain forgiveness. If they become Christians and want there marriages to work out and both are willing, who are you to say they should divorce because they sinned and marriage was the result?

Response
Ok, then you should also feel comfortable telling people in EXTRA marital adultery that it's ok for them to keep their "honey" on the side and still be AOK with the Lord.

The fact remains, the Lord, in His Word, doesn't differentiate between the kinds of adultery, making one kind acceptable to remain in, while calling those involved in the other kind of adultery to forsake it. Why are you doing that?

Comment/question

You're taking adultery and turning it into a sin greater than any other and asking folks to divorce for this but in all the other situations, there is no call to divorce. Sin is sin and if you hold to this standard then where does the door shut? How can you make adultery the standard for divorce and allow other marriages formed as a result of other sin to remain intact? That is not using fair and balanced scales.

Response
As I have stated numerous times, I do not believe ALL divorce is bad/sin. God accepted divorce as an act of repentance and His judgment on the nation of Israel ceased (for a time) due to their returning back to Him(Ezra 9-10). I believe divorces concerning those GOD joined together are sinful. Since Jesus says people are committing adultery when they marry other people, I can only conclude that since HE sees the relationship as sin, then it is sin. In other words, He does not JOIN the two as ONE. Why? Because the ones involved have already been joined by God with someone else. That is why God will not join this new union. I have said this time and time again: if you can SHOW me where in God's Word that remarriages while one has a living spouse are honored by God, then I will consider your point. You have not do that in all of our MANY conversations.

Let me also make clear: adultery is NOT a worse sin than many other sins. MOST all of us have been guilty of adultery(the various forms of it). However, the issue here is with one CONTINUING in a relationship the Lord has called sin. Whether it is concerning an adulterous union, a lifestyles of stealing, drunkenness, drug abuse, lying, etc.............all who profess to be walking with Jesus are called to renounce such sins. If they refuse, they are not walking/abiding in Him, no matter how much they try and convince themselves or put on a "face" for others. Those who are abiding in Him see through such fascades and are saddened to see the hold deception has on those involved.

Comment/question

I get your point here but this is not what we're talking about. We are not talking about a married couple in which one of them is having an extra marital affair. We are talking about divorced folk who have since remarried. Two different things.

Response
If you get my point, then you realize that BOTH types of relationships are adultery---they are on equal footing, scripturally. You seem to fail to see this. For some reason, you think a piece of paper makes a relationship that God calls sin, now lawful. If God has not dissolved the ONE FLESH He joined together, then it is not dissolved. That is why He calls remarriage adultery-----because He did not dissolve the previous marriage. It is still intact. I think you will agree that the "act" of adultery does not dissolve a marriage, yes? So, if that be the case, what in your mind DOES dissolve what God joined together----a paper signed by the state? Is God obligated to honor that which He has called sin?

Comment/question

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."

I have heard those better versed in Koine Greek suggest that this also could be rendered:

"Everyone who divorces his wife IN ORDER TO marry another ...."

i.e. it was an invalid reason for divorce.

Response
Personally, I think that would be quite a faulty rendering of that in light of the next part of the verse: "and he who marries one who is divorced from her husband commits adultery".

It is pretty clear that "motive" for putting away is not the issue in regards to guilt. It is the very act of marrying someone who does not belong to you that brings guilt (the charge of adultery) upon someone.

 

Comment/question

You are stating that a person who leaves their first marriage and remarries is living in sin. While it appears that the bible (and the Lord) does say this, it bears much more exploring, with the cross in mind. For example, Mark 10:12 and Luke 16:18 say "And if a woman divorces her husband, and marries another, she commits adultery." This may simply mean that if the woman is simply divorcing her husband because she is tired of him, that she commits adultery. However, the intent here is that the divorced man/woman has gotten the divorce with the plan already set to marry another...in other words, with premeditated purpose to marry another.

Response
No, that view can be discounted in that Jesus charges ANYONE who marries a divorced person with the same sin of adultery. He is not speaking of the REASON for putting away. He is speaking to the state of the person who either is already married in God's eyes and then joins with another or one who takes one who is already joined to another in the eyes of the Lord.

 

Comment/question

You are saying that divorce is not justified under the New Covenant. Ok, then according to you, under the New Covenant, the battered wife is bound to her drug-addict husband. The husband is now coming home every night, beating his wife almost killing her , stealing from her, sexually abusing her, etc. In a case like this, the marriage covenant has been broken, along with so many other of the commandments...and none have been the fault of the wife. Therefore, the divorce has already been set by the wife, who after one night, being so severely beaten by the husband, does come to Christ. According to you, she is in the sin of adultery if she has found and married a Christian man who loves her, cherishes her, and protects her as Christ loves, cherishes, and protects his bride.

A Christian is led to believe, by the life of our Lord and Savior, that they have been given a second chance. However, you nullify that, saying that if a Christian were married a second time before coming to the Lord, that marriage is invalid.

2 Corinthians 5:17 is directed towards the pharisees who simply wanted an excuse to divorce their spouses "for any reasons." The pharisees, of course, had "stony hearts", wanting the ability to sin, and to get away with it. But a divorced, faithful, born-again Christian does not willingly seek the ability/freedom to sin.

Response
When Jesus was speaking of marriage/divorce/remarriage, He was speaking to the Pharisee----an unbeliever. Jesus' words/commands in regards to marriage do not only apply to the believer. As a believer, we are held more accountable for what we choose to do, but we must acknowledge that marriage is not just for the believer----it is for all mankind. For those women who are abused, the Lord has given His command: "remain unmarried or be reconciled to your husband". If a "Christian" man takes such a woman as wife, he has disobeyed the Lord, "whosoever marries one divorced from her husband, commits adultery". Jesus does not commit adultery in caring for the Bride.

Comment/question

A Christian is led to believe, by the life of our Lord and Savior, that they have been given a second chance. However, you nullify that, saying that if a Christian were married a second time before coming to the Lord, that marriage is invalid.

Response
To be spared from eternal torment/separation from the Lord IS EVERY true believer's "second chance". Many come to the cross and have to forsake things in their life that are sinful, when it is revealed as such. This is the life of a True Christian. When Paul speaks, "such WERE some of you"..............this means we used to do these things, but now we quit committing adultery, quit committing fornication, quit lying, quit stealing........... If we are still doing these things, we are still in bondage to those sins---we have not allowed Jesus to "free" us.

 

Comment/question

You haven't walked it, sister Cindy (lastblast), thank God. But I and many others here have. I don't think you can really relate unless you've had to walk it.

Response
We've all sinned against others and we have sins committed against us, so whether I have had the particular sins aimed against me that you have, is irrelevant to be honest. There are those in this thread who DO believe in lifelong marriage who are in your shoes. The truth is: all sin is offensive---to man and God. Our response to sin is what matters to the Lord. Our response to sin should not be to sin ourselves(in getting what we wanted in our mates through some other person(s)), but to walk out LOVE---as Christ loves.

Comment/question

Once our exs who divorced us, remarried someone else, the old covenant has been broken. God calls us to forgive and forget as HE does.

Response
Where do you find this in scripture, (name deleted)? In Malachi 2 when the Lord is speaking rebuke to the man who puts away his covenant wife----the wife of his youth, and then takes another wife---He says He rejects the offerings of such a man. He reiterates that the 1st wife is the wife of the covenant (not the second).

Jesus says the 2nd spouse is committing adultery by marrying someone else. Paul teaches that in spite of a woman's remarriage while her husband is alive, she shall be called an adulteress. Do we see anywhere in scripture where God EVER legitimizes such relationships "down the road"? Believe me, I have looked and looked and have been unable to find ANYWHERE in scripture where it says that a second unlawful marriage does away with a first lawful marriage that has been joined by God Himself.

 

Comment/question

Perpetual adultery does not fit God's character and promise of forgiveness, when looking at the WHOLE of scripture.

Response
Then if that be the case, there is no such thing as living in fornication or homosexuality either. One can confess those illicit relationships as being sin, and then go right back into them. 

 

Comment/question

There is room for Christians to disagree about these passages, but there is no reason for this kind of dogmatism. Christians can really believe God's word to be absolutely true and still disagree with your interpretation of his word; we trust the authority of God's word, not the authority of your interpretation.

Response
Marriage either IS for life, (name deleted) or it is not. There is no "room" for variances of opinion. We may all have differing opinions, this is true, but some are wrong opinions---and do not line up with the Truth found in God's Word. Either those standing for their marriages are wrong, and they are falsely believing themselves to be "joined" to their covenant spouse, or they are right, and their spouse IS guilty of being in a STATE of adultery as are those who have joined with someone else's spouse.  

 

Comment/question

I don't believe for a moment that all marriages on earth are covenant/bound in God's eyes. Just because a marriage is "legal" here in our world that God acknowledges. He certainly does not recognize gay marriage.

Response
Absolutely true. If God calls a marriage "adultery", though in the eyes of the land, it is "legal", it means nothing to God. He has already defined how he looks at such a "marriage". As you said, the same thing can be said about homosexual marriage. In both cases, they can come to the Lord asking for forgiveness, but that "asking" does not change either type of relationship into a legitimate one in His eyes. Real repentance would require forsaking relationships He has deemed sinful. 

 

Comment/question
I am not in an adultery situation.
I won't be if I remarry some day, as God forgave me for the failed marriage.

He recognizes my divorce as being failed...divorce is considered sin, and it has been forgiven.

Response
It may be true, if you have repented for your sin in your marriage that the Lord has forgiven you, but there is no biblical evidence found in scripture that He wiped away your marriage. To the contrary, He has said that those who are divorced will commit adultery should they remarry (the guilty as well as the innocent). One cannot possibly be guilty of adultery IF a divorce dissolved what God joined together.

People continually use Matthew 19:9 as "evidence" that an "innocent" can remarry without sin, but Jesus did not say that. Instead, Jesus said that whosoever marries the one put away commits adultery. How could the one who marries a divorcee commit adultery if the divorcee was free due to the covenant spouse's adultery? This is a point many fail to address or they just ignore it altogether. The truth is we have a second witness to this as well in Luke 16:18: "whosoever marries her that is divorced commits adultery"..........

Comment/question
I am sure Jesus would have called me a liar today and told me that I did not want reconciliation.

That is all I have been praying for...and working towards.

I AM ALLOWED to have an opinion about remarriage even if I am working toward reconciliation.

Response
I'm sorry, (name deleted), but when I read your posts I get exactly the same thing: you really DON'T want reconciliation. If you did, remarriage, and the justifying you not being in sin if you DO do it, would not even enter the discussion. You are looking at 2 doors.........if you cannot enter the one door in what you believe is good timing, the other is a very viable option for you. You cannot be thinking of "moving on" to another person and truly be standing in faith for your marriage to be restored. It is double-mindedness. Do you believe in the Love spoken of in I Cor. 13? Do you believe only "part" of it towards your wife, or do you truly believe ALL of it? If any of us have the Spirit of Christ living within us, it is expected for us to walk out in FULL I Cor. 13----because it is no longer "I" that lives, but HE who lives within me........no?

Comment/question
YOU DO NOT KNOW ME! YOU DO NOT KNOW MY MOTIVATIONS!
YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT IS IN MY HEART!

I AM REPEAT I AM
ALLOWED to have an opinion of my own on remarriage.

Response
(Name Deleted), do you believe that those who believe in the permanency of marriage ALSO are entitled to voice their views---even in opposition to those who DO believe they do not commit adultery upon remarriage?

I am in no way telling you you can't express your "opinion". What I am saying is that I don't believe your "opinion" can be biblically supported. Do I know your heart motivations? No, neither do those who come along your belief that remarriage is NOT adultery. What I can see is a precedent, not only in the issue of remarriage, but with many other practices of immorality. Example: I say that I am seeking to remain pure before marriage, yet if I "fall" with my intended and get married anyways, it is not a big deal. I have two doors. One is the "good" door. The other door is sin in the Lord's sight, but I have convinced myself that it is not a "bad" sin. In doing such, I have in my heart, minimized the sin and in doing so, will have a much greater chance at not going through the "good" door when temptation/trials come my way.

Comment/question
I am praying and working for reconciliation. I have two beautiful kids that would love to see us back together. I have grown immensely in the past year in my walk with God .
Response
That is wonderful. I pray that you continue in your growth with Him, so that you are empowered to walk the path He has allowed for you in such a way that brings Him glory and draws others into His kingdom.

Comment/question
I am here with an opinion. My opinion is every bit as legitimate as yours.
Response
No, that is not true. If my "opinion" is not truth, then it is not legitimate. The same goes for your opinions. If they are not based upon truth, then they are illegitimate opinions based upon faulty reasonings.

Comment/question
I never called you a liar.
Response
And I never called you one. I did say that I see you as keeping your eye on two doors at the same time---based upon all that you have stated in this thread. When you say such things as "If I decide to remarry", you make it much more than mere opinion----you show that you are pondering do it yourself. One cannot be fully committed to honoring one's commitment to marriage and working on restoration and speaking about joining with another in the same breath. You may not see that as what you are doing, but truly, when we speak in faith, we do not look for other alternatives. We only speak that thing which we TRULY want to see come to pass.

Comment/question
IT IS STILL UP TO YOU TO DECIDE IN YOUR HEART WHAT THE BIBLE IS TELLING YOU...

They can believe me and my opinion, or they can believe you and your opinion.

Response
Or here is one even better: They believe GOD'S Word on the matter.

"whosoever shall put away one's spouse and marry another commits adultery, and whosoever marries one divorced commits adultery"

For a wife is bound to her husband so long as he liveth, but if he be dead, she is free to marry another, only in the Lord.

Comment/question
The way you and (Name Deleted) put out your opinion just turns so many people off...calling me a liar, telling remarried that must divorce or forfiet the Kingdom.
Response
No, that is not what we "say". Scripture says that the adulterer will not inherit the kingdom of God. Paul was very urgent in his admonishment to the brethren that they not be deceived in this area. Scripture also says that those who remarry after a divorce commit adultery----the guilty as well as the innocent. We can do with that as we like, and be held accountable, but we cannot annul what God has declared, no matter what our country's laws may state to the contrary.

Comment/question
Sorry, God used Paul in his day, Paul was a murderer, He used David, he was an adulterer, and a murderer, he used Moses who was a murderer..
Response
Neither remained murderers. They gave up their lives of sinfulness to serve the living God.

Comment/question
Today, he uses people like John Hagee, Joyce Meyers, they are both divorced and remarried...scripturally...and he uses them for HIS KINGDOM.
Response
It is the WORD of God which produces the fruit. God will use who He will use----the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Comment/question
So, you have determined that my opinion is not legitimate, by the interpretation that you believe is to be true and correct in the Bible.

You state that your opinion would not be legit if it did not line up with scripture.

Response
I said that BOTH of our views/opinions do not matter if they are not based on the TRUTH of God's Word. I did not say that neither of us use God's word to support our view. You believe that divorce dissolves the bond of marriage(hence you find no issue in someone remarrying after a divorce). I see a big problem in doing such. I base my understanding on many different passages spoken by both Jesus (Matthew 5:32, Matthew 19:9, Mark 10:10-11, Luke. 16:18) and Paul (Romans 7:2-3, I Corinthians 7:39).

I also do not believe that I Corinthians 7:27 gives permission for a divorced person to remarry without sin. I base my understanding of that passage on all the other prohibitions on remarriage as well as the knowledge that there are two different Greek words used in that passage having to do with "loosed".........I believe that is why you will not find in any translation the word "divorced" in the second part of that passage---because if a divorced(from one's covenant spouse) DID marry, they WOULD sin----Jesus said so.

Comment/question
He has forgiven me of a failed marriage. He has forgiven me of my divorce. He has wiped my slate clean.
Response
I agree in part. Again, can you show where He wiped your marriage away? Do you believe the "state" has the power to dissolve what God has joined together?

Comment/question
I believe that the Bible says that we are to obey the laws of the land...yet the law says 65 mph...but many go 75 and never look at it as sin.
Response
Oh, I think you just answered my question above unfortunately. The thing is that if we do speed, we ARE sinning because we are breaking the laws of the land. As for marriage, if the law of the land says one's marriage is dissolved---though God says one will commit adultery if they married, who do we follow? Man, who says we are free to join with another, or God who created man? Man's laws say it is legal to kill the unborn as well, do we then say it ok because it is "legal"?

Comment/question
There are those that lie on a daily basis and don't think of it as sin...
Response
It does not matter what one "thinks" is a sin, it only matters what God SAYS is sin. God's Word is clear on those who sin in a continually unrepentant manner. Liars are listed with those who will not inherit the kingdom of God......so if someone were to tell me that Joe-liar was a confessed believer who was going to heaven someday---even if he never stops living life as a liar---I would have a problem with such a confession.

 

Comment/question
No Cindy, I don't promote polygamy or say that God endorses it. What I do say is that the weak attempt at logic put forth by the standers cultists doesn't fly. They try to claim that God ONLY sees the first wife as a REAL wife and that ALL the others are just whores and not wives at all. Most inconveniently for them, Scripture simply WILL NOT ALLOW such nuttery.
Response
Why will scripture not allow it? Can you point me to scripture in which Jesus says that God will join the 2, 3, 4, + and they shall be ONE flesh? I only see Jesus saying the 2 will become ONE flesh. Are you basing what you believe to be true based on the actions of men in the OT who went against the creation intent for marriage?
Comment/question
Again, I'm not the one here who is trying to put simplistic one dimensional answers on complex real-life questions. That's the other guys; the Standers Cult that does such silliness.
Response
If God said something was sin (in regard to a married person joining with a person OTHER than the one God joined them to), then it is clear that to do so is sin. We don't need "complex" answers. The answer God gave us is simple. We make the simple complicated. To God, it is not complicated. It is only complicated to us because we do not want to obey God, but would rather decide ourselves what we THINK is good/right. It seems there are some who believe it a bad thing to actually speak and believe what God has said on this matter.

Comment/question
To answer your question, Sin is Sin. God's Word teaches that ALL sex outside of marriage is sin.
Response
Actually scripture teaches that sex with anyone God has not joined one to, is sin. Jesus says that if a divorced person marries another (so in your thinking they are married having lawful sex, correct?)both are sinning----they are committing adultery---so within an UNLAWFUL marriage, according to Jesus, sin IS occuring. What man calls a "lawful" marriage is not what defines a TRUE marriage in the sight of God. The only TRUE marriage is the ONE which HE joined together.

 

Comment/question
And repentance? Say someone divorces a spouse for unbiblical grounds, and marries someone else. That is adultery, but if the person confess that as sin, and doesn't repeat the same thing with the new marriage then that is repentance. They keep the current spouse and remain sexually faithful to that one.
Response
Does confession of sin nullify the union that God joined together, Searcher? If the person is guilty of adultery, that means they are with someone who is not their spouse in God's eyes. If the forsaken spouse is "standing" for the restoration of their marriage, what do you tell them biblically to prove that their marriage has been dissolved by God and He now recognizes and joins the second union He has called "adultery"?

Let me give an example: If I steal a car and then later acknowledge my sin (confess it), my confession does not then make the car mine----it still belongs to another.

The same holds true concerning the spouse who is taken by another. If they then confess their sin of committing adultery with someone's spouse, that doesn't then make them THEIR spouse in the eyes of God. GOD calls that relationship adultery----BECAUSE that person does not belong to them, they belong to another-----the ONE God joined them to, for life.

Comment/question
That analogy is ridiculous.

There are certain sins within a marriage which are covenant breaking. If God so chooses, He can separate the two which have become one, setting the offended party free, meaning they are no longer married. Marriage is broken by death, adultery, abandonment/abuse. The marriage no longer exists. The two are not bound together after covenant breaking sins have been committed.

So, to answer your question, no confession does not nullify a union. Covenant breaking sin does.

Response
No, it is not a ridiculous analogy. First you said, that if one CONFESSES the sin of adultery (being with someone who is NOT their spouse), THEN the marriage is "good" in the sight of the Lord. I say, confession does not then give one a right to keep what does not belong to them----whether it be a car or a spouse.

You then said, it was the "breaking" of the covenant that dissolved the ONE FLESH God joined together. Are you sure about that? Jesus said that AFTER a divorce (by the guilty party), the person was guilty of adultery when they married again. Why? Because the covenant is NOT dissolved in the sight of God. Jesus then goes on to state that the person who marries the INNOCENT one commits adultery. Why? Because the INNOCENT one is not freed from the union God joined together----EVEN though their spouse is now in adultery(remarriage).

The truth Jesus laid out is this: even though the husband puts away his wife, he does not belong to the new "wife". He still belongs to his first wife---and she belongs to him.

Many seem to be teaching that it is a matter of "what one wants" as to what is truth scripturally. Personally, I have a hard time with that one as it does not measure up to what Jesus or Paul taught on the nature of marriages that are joined by God. Some teach, if it is a marriage I "want", then it is binding. If it is a marriage I don't "want", then I am FREE to be with another. Unfortunately we do not get to dictate the terms of marriage---God does and what He calls adultery remains adultery as long as one remains in said relationship. There is absolutely NO scripture which says otherwise.

 

Comment/question
Perhaps I am out of line here, and if so, please forgive me and remove this post. I am not sure what you are allowed to say and what is not allowed. I wonder why you (the board moderators) allow someone to prevent a point of view that is ABSOLUTELY non Biblical and quite frankly, rather evil. Someone repeatedly says straight out that you can only enter the kingdom of God if you are good enough (in this case, not divorced). This is not what a Christian board should be allowing over and over. It could confuse non Christians who might stumble across this, although I cant imagine them reading through the thousands of posts. Again, I am probably out of line, I just hate to see the gospel presented as a works based salvation when its all by the grace of Jesus Christ. Thank you.
Response
The view that marriage IS permanent until the death of one of the spouses is very biblical and it is the EXACT position the very earliest church taught/wrote about(the 1st-3rd century church). For those of us who believe the Bible clearly teaches the marriage bond endures until death, the teaching that what Jesus called adultery is AOK, is what is evil. It is teaching that God's Grace (which is given to us to be free FROM the bondage of sin) is given to allow us to CONTINUE in relationships the LORD has deemed sinful.

To be sure, although divorcing a covenant spouse (the one GOD joined one to) is due to sin, one can be divorced and NOT be "in sin" if they repent of their part in the divorce. However, repenting of a divorce does not then free one to find another partner. Jesus said that those who are divorced commit adultery if they marry again. Paul taught in Romans 7:2-3 and I Corinthians 7:39 that DEATH frees the married to marry again. If one is divorced from the one God joined them to, they are to "remain unmarried OR be reconciled to that spouse" (I Corinthians 7:10-11).

Salvation is not a "works based" issue for those who believe in marriage til death. What we see in scripture is that Paul and Jesus both taught that adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God. Now, if Jesus says to remarry AFTER a divorce is to enter into adultery, should that not give us something to be concerned about if we or those we know/love are "in" such situations?

Jesus tells us that those who confess His name but are found to be workers of lawlessness (break His laws), will be cast away from Him, though they did many works in His name (Matthew 7:21-23). Again, is that not something we should concern ourselves with?  

 

Comment/question
I find a certain amount of tunnel vision here. They consider the "constant state of adultery" a deal breaker for salvation, but it seems that they don't concern themselves with other constant states of sin... perhaps gluttony. If someone dies while constantly over-eatting does that mean they are in danger of loosing their salvation? If someone has lived in a constant state of idolatry to sports, and has a heart attack watching their third football game of the day does that mean they are in danger of loosing their place in heaven?

I have many counter argument (stated in the long ago past) but one I have is with this "living in a constant unrepentant state of adultery" notion.
Response
If the Lord says one is joining after a divorce with someone who is NOT their spouse(they are committing adultery), why does it appear you believe doing such a thing IS acceptable? Why the deflection to other sins? The Word of God is clear that practicing ANY LAWLESSNESS is unacceptable for those who will enter into His kingdom.  

 

Comment/question
the Grace of God that is able to cover a multitude of sins when we genuinely ask for his forgiveness of our trespasses.
Response
When we GENUINELY ask for forgiveness, do we then continue in the relationship HE has stated is sin? Is this type of repentance acceptable to the Lord?

Comment/question
God did NOT ever state that remaining in a second marriage after repentance is sin.
Response
Do you find anywhere in the New Testament where the relationship Jesus calls adultery (because one or both are ALREADY joined to another) becomes a lawful marriage in the sight of God?

Comment/question
To arrive at this theological view, one must go far beyond anything ever said in scripture and ignore some verses that clearly contradict it.
Response
And you still have not provided one scripture that shows what Jesus called adultery is now a lawful marriage. Until you are able to do that, you can continue to say all you like that what we speak cannot possibly be true (that the original partners are STILL bound to each other even AFTER a divorce/remarriage), but you will not have any "teeth" to what you say..........it will only be based on what you "think", not what Jesus says...........and that is a very weak position to be coming from.

 

Comment/question
The divorced people in Biblical times were not the adulteress because the adulteress were senteced to die if the law was taken by the letter and etc...well, Kings and Nobility were untouchables, it seems, because if not David would be stoned too...
Response
Jesus told the adulteress to "go and sin no more"............plainly spoken, that would mean that she is not to return to adulterous practices. If one is in a relationship that is adultery in the Lord's eyes, that would mean to stop committing adultery with that person who is NOT your spouse(in the eyes of the Lord). It matters not to the Lord that the civil law says so and so is one's spouse...........If He did not join them, they are in sin.

 

Comment/question
You are correct that Jesus did not teach on abortion, but I did not say that Jesus did not teach on divorce and remarriage, what I said is that he did not go further in saying that second marriages must be ended in order to receive salvation. It is also important that in his subsequent discussion with the disciples, when they say "If this is the case, it is better not to marry!" Jesus says that whoever is able to accept this teaching should accept it.
Response
Whoever is able to accept this is: "whosoever shall LOSE their life for my sake, shall find life". They are who Jesus was speaking of. To obey Him is not an option for one who says they love Jesus more than they love their life.

Comment/question
That is nothing but a works based salvation point of view. If you are saying we must keep the law to be saved, then you had better take me out and stone me for being divorced. that is also in the Law. Are you under law or grace? Praise Him! Its by grace.
Response
Being divorced was never a "stoneable" offense in the Old Testament. Committing adultery, however, was---for both parties involved. When the Lord came and told the woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more", He was showing us that our sin does not bring us "death" if we choose to "go and sin no more". In other words, it is the Lord's Grace that offers us LIFE, instead of death. Many choose to not "go and sin no more", but instead "go" and then say they have embraced Grace---- and that Grace allows them to continue in what the Lord Himself has called sin (woe to those who call good evil and evil good).

The Lord has called remarriage evil(the sin of adultery) while one has a living spouse, yet many in the Western Church have called remarriage in such cases, "good". Many truly do not understand what loving your neighbor means or what the Lord means when He speaks against defrauding one's brother/sister. Some of us do understand what that means in light of the marriage bond and that is why we are encouraging others to get in His Word and to KNOW the heart of the Lord on this matter.

Concerning professing believers continuing in what the Lord has called sin, what we find in the scriptures is this: "if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God." (Romans 8:13-14)

"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions,.......................I told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Galatians 5:19-21

It is not a "works" salvation to walk in obedience to the Lord as He reveals those areas of sin that need to be forsaken(those who love me, obey me). Obedience through repentance is the EVIDENCE of a true believer---of those who "die" so that they may LIVE eternally with Him. It is a very difficult thing to prove to oneself who has not "died" to self, that they are truly born from above..............this is why Paul tells each professed believer to "test" oneself to SEE if we are in the faith. Jesus makes it quite clear that MANY who think they are in the faith, are not, but are instead transgressors of His laws.

 

Comment/question
............. your position is based on YOUR interpretation of what YOU believe God said, and that is an interpretation not shared by most who have studied these same passages. Most Christians believe God said something very different than what YOU proclaim that he said. We all notice the verses you quote and the ones you ignore, and it is the entire counsel of scripture that most base their interpretation of this issue on, not just the verses you are willing to quote.

Please understand that most of us see a BIG difference between God's word, and your interpretation of God's word; they are not one and the same.
Response
(Name Deleted) you still haven't answered my question. Can you provide one scripture in which Jesus sees the union He calls adultery as a lawful marriage and the previous union HE joined together, dissolved?

It is your belief that one can divorce and remarry based upon adultery within the marriage. You also have stated that it is the CHOICE of the offended party whether to leave the covenant of marriage or to forgive and desire reconciliation. Can you explain to me your thoughts on this: if the offended has chosen to remain faithful to THEIR vow to God, irregardless of what their spouse does (sin), are they holding their spouse in their sin by not releasing them and "moving on"? Since it is your belief that somehow magically the sin of adultery ceases with a new vow taken, how does that work when the other faithful spouse is praying and asking the Lord for their spouse to come to a place of repentance? In other words, if the power of a broken/unbroken covenant is in the hands of the offended one(this is what you say basically), how is it that you ALSO seem to teach that it the power is in the hands of the guilty as well(because if they DO enter into another marriage, the new vow dissolves the marriage God joined together)?

 

Comment/question
You lack because your mindset of teaching the whole counsel of the world of God, it does lack because your own understanding and mindset. You say to others do not do things in their on way and move their own way and yourself do it. By your answers below it shows your mindset and position. By our own set of provision "remain unmarried or be reconciled...it goes against of what Scripture and Lord says.
Response
No, to remain unmarried or be reconciled IS the counsel of God, (name deleted). To say that God approves of women and men swapping marriage partners and intermingling their families is not biblical. To "move on" while one has a living spouse, whether they are in sin or not, not only speaks against the Word of God, but it goes against the very heart of God.

 

Comment/question
Here is one main point of contention. We disagree on all remarriages, while an ex lives, are in a state of continuous adultery.
Response
Let me clarify then: all remarriages after the divorces of COVENANT partners. It is very common today for people who have never married to marry a divorced person, so a divorce taking place in such a union, is not the same as a divorce between two that GOD did join. In such cases, the previously single person/now divorced IS free to marry one never divorced from a covenant marriage. So you are correct, not all remarriages while one has a living ex are adulterous. Their first marriage may have been adulterous (because they married a person divorced from their covenant spouse), but unless they again married one divorced from their covenant spouse, they are NOW in a lawful marriage in the sight of God.

 

Comment/question

All marriage is lawful; it’s in the Bible….its what is brought into a marriage that was unlawful.

There is no such thing as an adulterous marriage;
Response
You are correct, in reality there is no adulterous marriage, only an adulterous union. Since we never see Jesus' approval on such unions, only His label of sin, we must conclude that even though such "marry", God does not join them as ONE.

 

Comment/question

I want to know for those who do believe remarriage is a sin, how you interpret Luke 16:18

"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery"

Do you believe it states that the act of the marrying after divorce is adultery ( which is what I think it says), or do you believe it actually says, the whole relationship is an on going adulterous affair as if he said (not in the bible =he who is married to a woman who is divorced commits adultery or is an adulterer). For those who believe that the the state of a remarriage is just adultery, no better than someone who sleeps around with other peoples spouses, please explain.
Response
I am one who believes the entire relationship is adultery. I believe that because this is exactly what Paul said in Romans 7:2-3. Only DEATH dissolves a marriage joined by God. The proof is that Paul used an adulterous woman in his analogy of what frees one to be joined to another. It was not adultery, it was not a divorce, it was not taking new vows with another person----it was DEATH that frees a wife to be joined to another. If she chose to do it anyways, she would be labeled an adulteress............and there is no indication anywhere in scripture where this new relationship is a marriage joined by God----He calls it adultery! It can only be adultery because God still sees the original covenant as still in force.

 

Comment/question

Nobody can marry someone who is their spouse because they are not their spouse until after they have married them, so really there is no possibility that marrying someone who is not your spouse alone being the cause of sin, it cannot be!
Response
The problem you face is redefining adultery. I think all of us will agree that adultery is: unlawful relations with someone who is not your spouse.

Now if Jesus said the "act" of marriage is adultery.........how can one be "married" in the eyes of God and having unlawful relations with someone who is NOT your spouse? It is impossible. You still have not shown 1 single scripture in which Jesus accepts the relationship HE has labeled adultery............not one. You say it is a lawful marriage in God's eyes, much of the Western Church says its a lawful marriage in God's eyes, but what did Jesus say? It's adultery. As hard as you may try, you cannot redefine adultery, none of us can.
 

 

Comment/question

I really do think the no remarriage outside of the death of a spouse view may line up with scripture but it seems so outrageous that it makes marriage about endurance and forgiveness in cases where it may not work out. I will continue to study and pray and I believe the lord will lead me to the truth. 
Response
I too found this teaching/belief "outrageous" at first. It didn't seem fair, but the thing is that when we work it all out scripturally, there is no refuting the permanency of marriage until death. My "flesh" did NOT want to embrace this belief, yet my Spirit KNEW it was truth----hard to swallow truth.

I think the big stumbling block for many is that when they picture "endurance" and forgiveness as such a hard thing towards another person, they forget 2 things: One, that no matter what another person does or does not do, we do what we do FOR JESUS..........it is for HIM that we ENDURE to the end (and us, of course). What another does or does not do can not dictate what WE are called to do as His followers. Secondly, if they are truly saved, some forget that WE too were once wretched sinners that deserved nothing, YET, Jesus extended Grace towards US................yet while we were sinners. He desires that we walk in that SAME love that He extended towards us. As (name deleted) said, it is strange to me that some are willing to extend that love and forgiveness to their children, neighbors, church members, family...........yet many times they will not do so to the ONE God joined them to.

 

Comment/question

Second, why must I "prove" to you that a second marriage is valid, when you have not proven that it is not?
Response
That's classic avoidance. We do not have to prove anything of the sort. Jesus has spoken. He says such relationships are adultery.............you say they are not. The burden of proof lies in your court.

 

Comment/question

Please lose the english dictionary. God does not judge by english definitions. Find out what the Hebrew word meant and how the Greek word was used in the Helenized Jewish diaspora.

Then you can make your point.
Response
Adultery: OT------"Strong's Number: 05003 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
@an a primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Na'aph TWOT - 1273
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
naw-af' Verb

Definition
to commit adultery
(Qal)
to commit adultery 1a
usually of man 1a
always with wife of another 1a
adultery (of women) (participle)
idolatrous worship (fig.)
(Piel)
to commit adultery 1b
of man 1b
adultery (of women) (participle)
idolatrous worship (fig.)


King James Word Usage - Total: 31
adultery 17, adulterer 8, adulteress 4, adulterous 1, women that break wedlock 1


NT: The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 3429 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
moicavw from (3432)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Moichao 4:729,605
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
moy-khah'-o Verb

Definition
to have unlawful intercourse with another's wife, to commit adultery with


King James Word Usage - Total: 6
commit adultery 6 Strong's Number: 3431 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
moiceuvw from (3432)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Moicheuo 4:729,605
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
moy-khyoo'-o Verb

Definition
to commit adultery
to be an adulterer
to commit adultery with, have unlawful intercourse with another's wife
: of the wife to suffer adultery, be debauched
A Hebrew idiom, the word is used of those who at a woman's solicitation are drawn away to idolatry, i.e. to the eating of things sacrificed to idols


King James Word Usage - Total: 14
commit adultery 13, in adultery 1

 

So if we are to insert the Greek Lexicon's definition of adultery into what Jesus said, it would go like this: Whosoever marries her that has been put away from her husand............ has unlawful intercourse with another's wife.

We can plainly see that what most of the Early church father's taught is what many of us too have seen in the scriptures: when one "marries" a divorced person, they are not entering into a lawful marriage in the sight of God, they are committing adultery with the spouse of another.

Many seem to think if there is "permission" from all parties involved that the subsequent marriages are ok.........yet, we see absolutely no evidence of this in scripture. It does not matter if "man" says his wife is free to marry another(because he doesn't want her any more), God says, it is adultery. It is no different than couples who have "permission" from their spouses within the marriage to seek out other "relationships". Permission does not nullify how God sees those other UNLAWFUL relationships.

 

Comment/question

Divorced Christians Who Married Again Are NOT In Adultery!
A christian who needs a divorce and considers remarriage will not be in adultery! Divorce from a bad or unrighteous marriage is a right from God to His children. Christians who were divorced and remarried have been wrongly labeled to be in adultery. It's just not true! They Say We Have A Spouse Yet We're Unmarried
Response
No, (name deleted), WE do not say, Jesus Himself said, "whosoever puts away his wife and marries another commits adultery and whosoever marries a woman put away commits adultery". To say that it is NOT true, is to deny Jesus' own words on the issue. He clearly said that a "divorce" does not separate what He has joined together.........that is why it is adultery AFTER a divorce has taken place, if one should marry another----because they are not free to marry.

Comment/question

We have been incorrectly taught and blindly believe that once a person is divorced, they somehow still have a spouse. They cannot get married again. This lie is designed to keep people in bondage their entire lives.
Response
You are attributing a "lie" to Jesus, (name deleted), because He is the one who says a divorced person is NOT free to find another spouse---unless their original spouse has passed away. I'm sorry you think walking in obedience to the Lord is "bondage". I do not see it that way.

Comment/question

If you were divorced or your spouse was deceased, would you still have a mate? Of course not!
Response
The Word of God says that yes, I would still have a husband if I were divorced from him. The Word of God also says that if my husband dies, I no longer have a husband.........I am free to find another should I desire that option.

Comment/question

We have been told that a person cannot get married once they have been divorced because their spouse is alive, even though after the divorce they don’t have a spouse; but once that spouse dies, they can then get married.
Response
The Word of God teaches us that one cannot marry again after a divorce because in the eyes of God such a one DOES have a husband/wife, otherwise it would not be adultery to marry again.

Comment/question

Romans 7, This isolated Scripture was used as an illustration by the Apostle Paul to give an example of when a person dies; they are no longer under the law. Paul was NOT teaching about divorce.
Response
Many try to say that Romans 7:2-3 isn't talking about marriage practices----it's only a "general" analogy. The interesting thing I have found is that some commentaries do not even address this passage, they skip right on past it. Why? Because they don't know what to do with it in light of modern day divorce/remarriage practices. They can't explain why Paul uses the example of an adulterous wife............why not use a wife in "good standing" in the marriage when speaking of the bond which endures until death?

See Romans 7 - Paul was talking about the Law not Marriage

Comment/question

How then can we accept that we have a spouse when we’re not married? When a person is divorced, they don’t have a husband or wife. This means they are not “bound” to someone.
Response
(name deleted), you can say that over and over again, trying to convince yourself, but you cannot change the words of Jesus which refute what you have said. He says a divorce does not dissolve a marriage. It matters not what a divorce decree states to the contrary. God's judgments trump man's judgments----every time. If God says something is sin, it doesn't matter if man says it is "lawful".

Many of us who post here truly want to see the BEST, God's BEST, for those who profess His name. We understand that when we transgress the Lord's commands, there is a price to pay. It is a much better thing to KNOW one is truly following the Lord and have confidence than it is to wonder if one is in sin. I know this dialogue (on the entire thread) will not change some minds, they will do what they will do irregardless of what God's Word says to the contrary. However, there are some who DO desire to know the Lord's Will for their life and do not look at the Lord's commands as "bondage", but understand that following Him obediently actually gives great freedom.

Comment/question

This Scripture is for the person who is MARRIED and wants to marry someone else while they are still married to another. You can’t be married to two people at the same time. If you’re divorced, you CAN get married again BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE A HUSBAND OR WIFE. Simply, you’re single or unmarried, if divorced.

from divorcehope.com
Response
The above is a perfect example of how the person running divorcehope twists the Word of God to allow for what Jesus called adultery to occur. I truly fear for him as he is leading many into sin and will have to answer for that. 


 

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Critique of David Instone-Brewer on Divorce

By Dr. Leslie McFall
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