- Matthew 5:32, 19:9 Exception Clause/Innocent Woman
- Does Deuteronomy 24 / The Law of Moses Prohibit Returning To The First Spouse?
- Look At The Betrothal View
- Romans 7 - Paul was talking about the Law not Marriage
- 1 Corinthians 7:15 - But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound
- 1 Corinthians 7:9 - It is better to marry than to burn It is not good for man to be alone
- 1 Corinthians 7:27-28 - But If Thou Marry Thou Hast not sinned
- 1 Corinthians 7:24 - Remain As You are Called
- Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus
- Herod & Herodias
- 1 Corinthians 6:16 - Does Sex=Marriage? He which is joined to an harlot is one body?
- John 4 - Jesus & The Woman With 5 Husbands
- What about David & Bathsheba?
- What about Esther & King Ahasuerus?
- Hosea & Gomer
- Ezra Chapters 9 & 10 - Putting Away Unlawful Marriages
- Jeremiah 3 - God Divorced Israel
- "Put Away" Does Not Mean Divorce/A Divorce Certificate Dissolves A Marriage?
- "Put Away" Does Not Mean Divorce/A Divorce Certificate Dissolves A Marriage? Part 2
- You Can’t Compare Homosexual Unions with Remarriage
- What About Abusive Marriages?
- What About The Children Of Remarriage?
- Divorce & Remarriage is Not the Unforgivable Sin
- Do Not Judge/Where Are Grace & Mercy?
- Divorce & Remarriage Before Salvation
- Men Can Divorce, Women Cannot?
- Unequally Yoked Marriages/Believers & Unbelievers
- Is Remarriage Adultery A One Time Act or Continuous Adultery?
- Does God Join All First Marriages?
- God Hates Divorce! Divorcing From A Remarriage Would Be A Sin?
- Were Remarriages In The Early Church?
- 1 Corinthians 7:11 - "Unmarried" Means The Divorced Is Free To Remarry
- 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
- Divorce, Remarriage, Churches, Ministries, Christian Leaders, Teachers & Divorce Rates
- Are Remarriages Blessed By God?
- Polygamy & Remarriage
- Do We Extend Grace To The Wayward Spouse?
- General Questions & Comments
"Look at the legalized adultery we call divorce.
Men marry one wife after another and are still admitted into good
society; and women do likewise. There are thousands of supposedly
respectable men in America living with other men's wives, and thousands
of supposedly respectable women living with other women's husbands."
- R. A. Torrey From R.A. Torrey's book How to Pray, pages 94-95
R.A. Torrey (1856-1928) was a very well-known Christian writer,
evangelist, pastor, graduate of Yale University, and was also the
superintendent of Moody Bible Institute for 19 years.
TRINITY BARS THE
DIVORCED.; No Remarriage in the Church or Any of the Chapels.
The clergy of Trinity Church announced yesterday that under no
circumstances will divorced persons be married by any of the clergy of
that Episcopal parish, nor will such marriages be permitted either in
the church at Wall Street and Broadway or in any one of the parish's
eight chapels. The announcement was as follows:
View full article New York Times
December 7, 1904, Wednesday
Frequently Asked Questions, Comments and Arguments about Marriage Divorce & Remarriage
Is Remarriage Adultery A One Time Act or Continuous Adultery?
Comment/question
In the Bible,
“Commits adultery” is a one time act, not a constant state.
Response
I disagree with you and so does the
Greek...........
Here is the Lexicon's definition of committeth adultery:
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 3429 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
moicavw from (3432)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Moichao 4:729,605
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
moy-khah'-o Verb
Definition
to have unlawful intercourse with
another's wife, to commit adultery with
King James Word Usage - Total: 6 commit adultery 6 KJV Verse Count
Matthew 2 Mark 2
If one has unlawful intercourse with ANOTHER'S wife, how can that be the
adulterers wife? If the act of marriage is ADULTERY, how can it then be
a lawful marriage?
Comment/question
By that definition it still does not imply
that it is a constant state of adultery.
Response
If you are having unlawful relations with
another man's wife, how is that NOT a constant state as long as one
STAYS with that other man's wife?
Also, we have Romans 7:2-3 in which Paul said that a woman who marries
again while her husband is still alive will be called an ADULTERESS.
This does not signify that her remarriage was one act of
adultery...........she is branded an adulteress............while her
husband lives (because she would be in an illicit relationship should
she remarry).
Comment/question
The question remains then, Would you agree HE
(God) would not put together something He calls adulterous/sin?
Response
I think this is ultimately the point that each
of us needs to understand. Some of us have discerned from the Word of
God that He will NOT join together ANY relationship that HE (not us)
calls sin----whether it be the sin of fornication, adultery,
homosexuality, incest, bestiality, etc.
Some believe and teach that God will not join MOST of those sinful
relationships, but that He WILL join "SOME" forms of adultery. For me,
this is just not supportable with the Word of God. Some teach that in
the case of remarriage(which Jesus calls adultery because the former
bond has not been dissolved), all one has to do is confess the sin of
adultery, then the relationship is THEN joined by God as ONE. Again, no
scripture to support such a viewpoint.
The problem: what about all the people who do NOT confess their
adultery? Are they STILL in the sin of adultery? If they never confess,
will they die with God seeing them married to another(the covenant
spouse)?
In addition, as has been noted time and time again on this thread, why
is remarriage adultery in a whole different category? Why is it that
only confession is necessary, yet in ALL other illicit relationships,
the RELATIONSHIP needs to end as a FRUIT or repentance? If I'm in an
"extra-marital" relationship (adultery), then true repentance would
entail me LEAVING that relationship and returning to my covenant spouse.
However, in remarriage adultery, one does NOT have to leave their
adultery, but they can confess the sin and STAY with the NON-COVENANT
person they are with. They say that because their other spouse(covenant)
may have "moved on" (committed adultery also), they should stay in their
current relationship. However, when presented with a "standing" spouse
waiting for the erring to turn from their adulterous remarriage, they
have no real argument concerning the nature of repentance in such cases.
The fact is, scripturally speaking, the erring is IN adultery----not WAS
in adultery. The one standing is aligned with God and His Word. The one
erring in TRUE repentance, would forsake their adultery and return home
to the one "standing" in the covenant made with the other person AND
GOD.
Again, it all come down to WHO God sees one joined to? If HE did not
join two as One(in a covenant marriage), it means THEY joined themselves
together----in the flesh.........and they ARE in sin until they forsake
that sin. Scripture is clear that there are different "joinings"...........one
is in regards to sexually illicit unions and the other is in regards to
that which God joins together(lawful marriage)---until death separates
it.
Comment/question
My husband just got born again a few months ago. He could NOT have
received Gods grace, mercy and freedom from the bondage of addiction if
we were living in a continual state of adultery.
Response
That is not true. EVERY person who becomes born again is entrenched in
some sin or another. The Lord doesn't wait until we are "sin free"
before He will 'deliver' us.
What
is true is that the Lord is merciful many times to deal with one sin at
a time, but that doesn't mean the ones He hasn't yet addressed are not
sin.......they are just "unknown" to the person as of that point. This
is true for all of us. Most all people who come to saving faith in Jesus
and don't know all their sins, still practice sin, yet the Lord's Grace
is extended.
Comment/question
Divorce and remarriage is NOT adultery, unless the divorced person -
that is, not the Plaintif but the Respondent - remarries. Then both he
or she and his or her spouse are committing adultery, because, the
person who committed adultery first, when they were still married to
their first spouse, is the person who should remain unmarried as a
punishment for their sin
Response
(name deleted), that is not what Jesus spoke. How do you fit that
reasoning in with Paul's teaching that it is not due to punishment that
a woman is prohibited from remarrying, but because the BOND of marriage
to a first husband remains intact until that husband dies? (
Comment/question
ONLY if there is GENUINE repentance and a change of course by the one
who broke the marriage covenant, is there the slightest glimmer of hope
for a meaningful reconciliation, but, even that cannot be at the beck
and call of others. Broken hearts take time to mend.
Response
Exactly, yet what you would say is OK with the Lord (remarrying another
while one has a living spouse) flies in the face of what you just spoke
above. To remarry says that I WILL NOT allow healing to occur with the
possibility of RECONCILIATION with the one God joined me to----the
offense is just too great and I am not willing to wait until they come
to full repentance. I would ask this: is THIS the mind/heart of Jesus
Christ toward the sinner? Does He wash His hands of us BEFORE the day of
judgment?
We want to demand time to HEAL from hurts, bitterness, anger, etc (some
of which are very sinful things to deal with), but concerning the
"sinful" one, we don't want to allow time for repentance---full and
genuine, to take place. We want to get on with life. If we grab hold of
this mindset, are we walking in the light---as HE is in the light?
One more thing to ponder: What better person than one who is called by
His name, to stand in the gap (intercede) for the one HE joined them to
when they sin (whatever that sin may)? Is that not a reflection of
Christ towards His Body?
Comment/question
Many times those who don't believe in divorce say they are bound to
uphold their vows and will not break them. It is clear however,
that they are only adhering to "one" of those vows - till death do part.
The rest of the vows, are put down. How many of the bound but freed
support their spouses financially even after a second marriage? How many
continue the physical relationship, making themselves available to the
remarried spouse? I think if we are honest very few if any actually
uphold those vows.
Response
I know people on both sides of the fence concerning having relations
with one God has joined you to while they are continuing in adultery
(whether through extra-marital relations or through a remarriage). Some
feel that they SHOULD not deny the one God joined them too, though their
spouse is continuing in sexual unfaithfulness by being with another
person. It is THEIR spouse---divorce or not/ remarriage or not. Their
spouse does not belong to the other person they are committing adultery
with.
Others feel it is ok to deny when the unfaithful partner refuses to
repent from their adutlery-----but they do not REJECT the partner in
full, only that part of the relationship. The do continue to pray for
the erring spouse that they would come to a place of repentance and
restoration of the marriage (I Cor. 7:10-11).
We must remember that those that DO choose to have relations with their
ONE FLESH are not committing adultery. The other woman/man in the
picture that has joined themself to another's spouse is the one
committing adultery. They are the "third party"............one who is
defrauding their brother/sister and is not walking in the second great
commandment: Love your neighbor. If one does love their neighbor, they
will not involve themself with a person who has been joined by God to
another. They will find their OWN husband/wife.
Comment/question
Any woman who would sleep with her former remarried husband, has to do
some serious brain-washing to not believe she has just committed
adultery herself.
Response
Again, it would be the new "wife" who is committing adultery in the
Lord's sight, not the ONE FLESH wife. The new "wife" separated what God
joined together and she will be held accountable for that if she
continues to dwell with another woman's husband. Paul was very clear
that every woman was to have her OWN husband, not another woman's
husband and every man was to have his OWN wife, not take another mans'
wife as his own.
Comment/question
It would seem "till death do part" is considered the most important vow
while the things that actually make a marriage can be dispensed with in
these cases.
Response
1 Corinthians 13 should be what is in view here. We, as Christians, are
called to LOVE our spouses............whether they are with us or not
with us, til death do us part, we are called to walk in I Cor. 13. Many
are trying to do just this-----while their spouses remain in unrepentant
sin with a partner in adultery. THIS is loving "in good times and
bad"..........this is longsuffering love, this is true agape
love----
Comment/question
Scripture teaches if you break one law you are guilty of breaking the
whole thing. So the soul that says, "I didn't fulfill any of my other
duties, but I didn't divorce my spouse!" doesn't seem like a place to
claim brownie points!
Response
ah, you are right. just because one doesn't divorce doesn't mean they
are loving their spouse as they should. However, just because one is not
doing what they should be doing, does not give the other license to
throw out the entire marriage itself and seek a partner in adultery to
replace the person God joined them to.
Comment/question
The fact is that even though some who are divorced claim to not
recognize the second-marriage in their minds, they do so in practice. By
their actions, they show they really believe different than what they
say.
Response
No, you are incorrect. Have you ever read the Early Church Father's
writings----the Antenicene to be exact? There is one writing (before
100ad) written by the Pastor of Hermas. He deals exactly with the issue
of a spouse who is committing adultery. He says that the "innocent" one
may divorce such an unrepentant one, but they are not free to marry, or
else they would too be guilty of adultery.
This is what the early church believed. Divorce was separation of bed
and board, not a dissolving of the marriage. What he wrote aligns
perfectly with what Paul said the Lord commanded those who departed.
They remained unmarried OR reconciled with their spouses. So, those
spouses who choose not to have relations with the one God joined them to
are not acting any differently that what was understood by the Early
Church to be the correct response to an adulterous spouse.
Comment/question
When Paul spoke in Romans concerning the Gentiles without the law he
says that though they didn't have the law, when they upheld any part of
it, they show the law is written in their hearts. In the same way,
anytime the free but bound, walk in accordance to what is expected when
dealing with a married couple (not offering themselves sexually to the
former spouse, not supporting the household of the former spouse, etc.)
they show that the law is written in their hearts. They know it would be
wrong even though they claim to still be the true spouse of the departed
one.
Response
You are biblically inaccurate. Such a person who DOES claim to be the
rightful spouse is merely speaking the Word of God in truth. Those who
have joined themselves in adultery do not want to believe what the
written Word of God says though. They would rather turn to the
reasonings/laws of man to justify their evil deeds.
Comment/question
You will also understand why some remarriages take place and why they
are amazingly blessed by God. You will understand how some remarriages
are great reflections of the relationship of Christ and His church and
serve as a real light to the world and bring true honor and glory to
God.
Response
Blessed? I do believe God's MERCY (not blessings) are upon many
such remarriages---as well as many other sinful relationships. I know
quite a few remarriages in which the persons have come to see their
adulterous state and repented (have forsaken) those relationships. God's
MERCY was there for them to see it and have the power to flee the
sin. His blessings came AFTER they decided to follow Him in forsaking
their sin. Many try to justify remarriage based on "outward"
appearances, yet this is opposite of what Jesus directs us to do. He
tells us to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment (based upon not what we see, but
what we KNOW to be truth). In His Word we also find that the WICKED seem
to prosper.............and God's people seem to suffer...............yet
we know---by His Word, that this is only for a season and we are not to
judge such things by OUTWARD appearances, believing that because someone
"appears" to be blessed, that surely God's blessings must be upon them.
Comment/question
We need to understand the higher principles of life that I mentioned
earlier. This is not about selfishness or marrying for convenience. I
think that is an insult to all those who tried all they could to save
their marriages under the worst conditions and have it still end up in
divorce.
Response
Many walk in ignorance of the Truths found in the Word of God and in
understanding HIS heart/Will..........and that many times is why some
enter into adulterous marriages----not out of outright rebellion, but
because they knew no better and just followed other's actions. For them,
when they come to the truth, it is very painful..........because they
truly DO love Jesus, yet did not really seek HIS will for their lives.
Those I do not worry so much about as they, when they come to truth,
will rectify their disobedience, because they DO love Jesus more than
self. Unfortunately, there are many who DO see what Jesus says, but will
defiantly go their own way, even trying to justify their evil deeds,
using/twisting the Word of God to do so. These I worry about---eternally
speaking.
Comment/question
When you ask if they get to keep their spouses once they have divorced
wrongly and married another, my answer would be yes.
Response
Wow, you are saying that you can keep that which does not belong to you.
That speaks volumes to me!
As (name deleted) has shown, using the definition of
adultery............Jesus is saying that when someone marries another's
spouse, they are joining with one who is not their own.
How can one then be married to one that is not their own? They can't.
They are having relations with one who belongs to another. I have seen
time and again, those who for their own gain, CLING to Deut. 24, but
reject the other "laws" Moses gave. Why? Because they want to
desparately keep what does not belong to them. They have hated their
neighbor, defrauded their brother/sister, and do not want to turn from
this. They want to acknowledge that what they have done is covered by
the Grace of God. They want to label a covenant marriage as a sin that
can be repented of. The thing is that the covenant marriage(the one God
joined) is not a sin----the sin lies with the divorce and if applicable
the remarriage. Those are the only two things that need to be repented
of.
If one is divorced and not wanting to reconcile, they should repent of
this mindset and ask the Lord for the heart to pray for and desire to
reconcile what God joined together. If one/both of the parties have
remarried, they need to acknowledge they have joined themselves to
someone who does not belong to them, forsake the sin of adultery, and
ask the Lord to work for reconciliation.............and if that is not
possible, for the strength to live for Him in their
singleness..............
Comment/question
Now, don't get it wrong. I'm not saying anyone who has remarried has
stolen another's property although that may be the case in some
scenarios, but what I am saying is that it's not always true that God
requires one to give back, even if it was really stolen.
Response
Try to explain that one away with scripture.
Comment/question
Remarriages will occur and God knows it and blesses it.
Response
Again, try to explain/prove that statement with scripture.
Comment/question
Someone said earlier that the blessing is really God's mercy. Great!
God's mercy is a blessing because God showing mercy means that although
you have done wrong and perhaps a great wrong (divorced unjustly and
remarried illegally)
Response
His mercy is, that in such cases, the adulterer/adulteresses are not
stoned, but are give opportunity to forsake their sin............that is
God's mercy. He does not bless what He calls sin.
Comment/question
Right, wrong, evil or good, once they marry, it's done!
Response
Explain that to Jesus, since he calls the next union, adultery. I guess
you feel God does not know what He's talking about, eh?
Comment/question
For those who believe the Bible teaches that staying remarried
following divorce means one is constantly in an adulterous relationship,
I have some questions. If one of your parents had been married before,
then divorced, and has now been married to your other parent for over 40
years, what should the response of the (adult) child be regarding things
like anniversaries? Is it sinful to recognize the anniversary because
you are "celebrating" a sinful relationship?
I am
reposting these questions above because I think they got lost in the
shuffle. Also, I will add some more questions. If both parties from the
first marriage have remarried (and remained in their respective
remarriage relationships for over forty years), do you believe that both
parties should divorce their current spouses and try to be reconciled to
one another? I realize that many of you believe those second marriages
should never have happened, but the fact is, they did. I don't think
anyone involved has ever thought that they were now living in an
adulterous relationship. But suppose they come on this thread and become
convinced that the second marriage relationship is an adulterous one.
Then should they both divorce the partners they have been with for over
forty years and reconcile to one another?
Response
I know of a woman who has been "standing" for the restoration of her
marriage for over 35 years---he is remarried many years and has a
daughter with his 2nd wife.........I also know of another woman whose
husband left her and their 2 young boys in her early twenties--he also
remarried. She is now in her early 40's.........She still wears her
wedding ring and is waiting for her husband to come to repentance and
have her family restored. There are MANY, MANY of the same stories.
You are bringing back the point of what I said in my last. People mostly
focus on the sinful relationship (adultery) and how breaking that off
will hurt those involved---and how surely that can't be God's will. What
about the RIGHTFUL spouse (in God's eyes) who is STANDING for the
restoration of their covenant marriage/family? These questions are why
we NEED to focus only on what God's Word says about marriage----which
ones are lawful to Him and which ones are not, and act in accordance
with His Word in regards to repentance/forsaking sinful relationships.
For me, in regards to celebrating anniversaries and such of close family
members that are in adulterous marriages, I could not partake in the
celebration. That would be hypocritical of me, knowing/believing what I
do now, wouldn't it? I would, in essence, be celebrating a sinful
relationship. It would be akin to me going to someone's "housewarming"
party who is not married, but living in fornication. I would not
celebrate them living together, just as I would not celebrate a couple
who are living in adultery---per the Lord's Words.
I hope I answered your questions. I know how easy it is for a post to
get "lost" in this discussion as there are so many posts!!!! If I didn't
answer something, please ask again and I will be happy to answer.
Comment/question
If he has remarried, he is not committing adultery with his current
wife. I don't believe he still belongs to his first wife.
Response
"I believe............I don't believe"....................it matters not
what we "believe/don't believe"..........it matters what the Lord said.
He said to enter into another marriage after a divorce was adultery. You
say, no it is not. Adultery means the person one is
involved with is NOT their spouse. You say, they are the
rightful spouse. Sorry, I have to believe Jesus said what He meant and
meant what He said. If a remarriage was LAWFUL, one would not commit
adultery by joining with that person.
Comment/question
Since he has married again, that ends the hope of reconciliation as I
shared before. If he had not remarried, then I would still believe the
divorce ended the marriage but they could still be reconciled.
Response
Again, if the marriage is adultery, it is not a lawful union----it is
adultery, and adultery CAN and SHOULD be forsaken. We can try and put a
"legal" stamp on a relationship, but God is not mocked. When two come
together in "relations" in such a situation, what the Lord looks down
and sees are two people profaning the covenant of marriage and two
people who are sinning against Him and their lawful spouses.
Comment/question
God calling anyone's former spouse to wait for another divorce to occur
so their family can be restored. Again that is really extra-biblical
stuff.
Response
No, not "extra-biblical", very biblical: I Corinthians. 7:10-11.
Comment/question
That may well be but the reality is that people divorce and remarry.
Response
Yes, the reality is that many are committing sin, sexual and otherwise.
Just because this is the case does not mean God "winks" at it and
excuses it. If Jesus said remarriage was adultery after a divorce takes
place, it is because the divorce did NOT dissolve the marriage God
joined together. It is absolutely no different than two people have an
extramarital affair-----no different. One cannot use ANY NT teachings on
marriage, divorce, remarriage to prove otherwise.
Comment/question
As I said, anything can happen from the point of divorce on if no one
remarries. Again, the point is that if one of them does remarry, there
is no more "intact" for the first marriage. The marriage is over and
they must, if they want to live in truth, deal with that fact.
Response
No, the marriage is not over. Again, if Jesus doesn't acknowledge a
divorce as dissolving a marriage, then any relationship entered
into----though it is "legal" by civil standards, it is adultery to the
Lord, because they are still bound to their covenant mate.
Comment/question
This teaching is not about those families that are waiting while both
are not remarried even though divorced. This doctrine is trying to speak
to those whose ex-spouses have remarried and to those who have remarried
with Biblical permission. If the family remains physically intact and
the offender repents and the family is healed, fantastic! I'm sure we
all know this happens but when one divorces and remarries, that is
different. You want them to act as if they are still married as if that
will make it true but it does not.
Response
When any of us who hold to this speak/write on this issue, it is with
hope that marriages will be SPARED from going down the road of divorce
and later remarriage. We don't want people to find themselves in
opposition to the Lord's Word. Finding oneself in adultery and having to
rectify it is not an easy task. If they would have worked on their first
marriage, prayed, obeyed the Lord, etc, instead of "moving on", they
would have been spared the heartache of repentance and they would have
spared the third party and all children involved, heartache.
Again, and I will keep saying this: If Jesus doesn't acknowledge a
divorce as dissolving what HE joined together---------then the marriage
IS still intact and the person who remarries is committing adultery with
this third party...........and the third party is committing adultery
with someone else's husband/wife.
Comment/question
So is your stance of Biblically-allowed remarrieds living in "continual
adultery" or "perpetual sin".
Response
Again, I cannot speak for others in this, but the truth is that Jesus
calls such relationships adultery (because said participants belong to
others in the Lord's eyes). Unless one can prove by the Word of God that
such relationships change into lawful ones, they we must believe the
Lord when He labels such as sinful. Many want to say that confession
changes adulterous unions into lawful ones, but that "process" does not
work with any other illicit relationship. The fact that the laws of the
land have put their stamp of approval on said relationships does not
change the Lord's view on them.
Comment/question
You would be wise to remember that NO marital union should be held above
the value and worth of the people IN them. Those that insist on doing so
are marriage idolators. IMO, Jesus was more concerned about people than
offices or states of matrimony ..... and His covenant is FIRST extended
to the people He came and died for and rose again for.
Response
You are right. The Lord is concerned about the people in covenant
marriages, yet, please do not minimize the importance of covenant
marriage as the Word of God likens this relationship to Christ and the
Church. It is IN this covenant relationship that we LEARN to LOVE as
Christ loves. It is in THIS relationship that we portray to a lost world
what a relationship with Jesus should be like----if one or both are
following the Lord in how they relate to their covenant spouse.
Comment/question
So is your stance that one should divorce an existing spouse in order to
seek to remarry a first spouse .... even if that first spouse has also
remarried. So, we could conceivably have TWO marriages destroyed by yet
another divorce .... heaping sin upon sin. If your MDR concepts were
widely accepted and applied, then millions of Christians throughout the
generations would be held to damaging and abusive and lonely existences.
Response
Many are holding to lonely existences, --BECAUSE they are being obedient
to the Lord and their love of God is more important than this present
life---which is but a puff of smoke. Jesus warned us that those who seek
to save their lives shall lose it. Many who are "lonely" in this life
shall be rewarded in the next because they chose rather to LOSE their
lives for Christ's sake and His kingdom----remaining faithful in an
unfaithful world. If you think many ARE faithful, ponder the words of
Jesus: "when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith?" Many are not
willing to day to die to self and live for Jesus...........yet, that IS
what a True believer is called to do.
Comment/question
I pray that your hearts be softened ......
Response
It is my prayer that ALL of our hearts be softened so that we LOVE as
Jesus loves. It is my prayer that those who are in sin will forsake
their sin in repentance and that those who are crying out to the Lord
because of forsaken covenants, will experience restoration and all
involved be healed.
Comment/question
Come to think of it, there is NO worse of a personal attack than to
claim that a Biblically divorced and Biblically remarried person is
living in "perpetual sin" or "adultery".
Response
"Whosoever divorces and marries another commits adultery. Whosoever
marries one divorced commits adultery."
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the
I make no false accusations, but I will lift up the Word of God in hopes
that "all will come to repentance"............and better yet, that many
will not find themselves in this situation because they ignorantly
followed the masses into their sin.............The temporal
repercussions are hard enough let alone the eternal ones..
Comment/question
This
is where the teaching about a divorce not dissolving a marriage comes in
and where the belief that although divorced you are actually still
married. Of course that leads to the remarriage adultery theory.
Response
A theory??? Jesus said in NT teachings that divorce does not dissolve
what HE joins together, hence it is ADULTERY after a divorce for
said parties to join with others.
If a divorce DID dissolve what GOD joined together, then
it would not be adultery for said persons to marry others, would it?
You
know what's really sad to me? It is that some continue to go to great
lengths to justify adultery...........they ignore Jesus' very clear
words on this issue of covenant marriage, trying their best to find some
"wiggle" room. In the end, try as some may, they WILL find that there
just is NO justification to take what God has joined together and come
between that and claim those who do such things are then in "blessed"
unions. When Jesus spoke of such unions, He did not label them as
"blessed", but as sinful.
Comment/question
Understand this. I am simply posting what I have studied in the Word.
Respond to me if you are refuting what I am putting out there with true
Bible study. That is what I'm interested in.
Response
I don’t mind a good bible study............if it is with a heart to
truly come to truth. I think I have put scripture upon scripture out
there.........Jesus' very own words, matter of fact. That's why I find
it very hard to take your "theory" comment. Jesus, by His own words,
shows that divorce does not dissolve what He joins together. You can try
and pull all the OT passages you like which "appear" to say otherwise,
but the fact remains that Jesus spoke very CLEARLY on the issue. One
cannot possibly commit adultery by remarriage if their previous one was
dissolved, could they?
Comment/question
I
Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the
Response
Let's take that further and quote what Paul also wrote in the same
chapter farther down: verses 18-20: "18 Flee immorality.
Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral
man sins against his own body.
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who
is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in
your body".
Comment/question
So,
in light of that, you MUST agree with I Cor. 6:9-10. You see these
people as "wicked", "adulterers", and in "continual sin". You have
consistently maintained this errant position ever since I have seen you
post .... here and elsewhere.
Response
Go back to the verses right before the ones you quoted: I Cor.
6:7-8----"Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have
lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be
defrauded? On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do
this even to your brethren".
Then Paul goes on to tell them NOT to be deceived............that the
unrighteous will NOT inherit the
Comment/question
Now,
Cindy, you are convinced that a Biblical remarriage amounts to
"perpetual adultery" and that couple is sinning unless they divorce .
Response
Jesus said such unions are adultery. That means they are involved with
someone else's spouse---having UNLAWFUL relations with them. Paul said
that if a woman marries while her husband is still alive she shall BE
CALLED an adulteress. Adulteress is a LABEL........it shows lifestyle.
Paul also says in Rom. 7 that until the husband dies, the wife is NOT
free to marry another. He is exactly in line with what Jesus spoke on
the issue while He walked the earth.
Comment/question
.....
and even seek to cause the divorces of the ex's, if they have remarried
.... in order to return to what your group refers to as their "covenant
spouse".
Response
It matters not if the other covenant spouse has joined with
another----they too are in the sin of adultery. Just because two may
agree to divorce/sin, that agreement does not null and void what God has
joined together. God is the creator of marriage and HE alone determines
how marriage is to be used. He has said that marriage endures until one
of the covenant spouses dies. Only then, may the other one marry again
(to one who is "free" to marry).
Comment/question
In
this chapter, (1 Samuel 12) God called His people, under the king, to
serve Him with their whole hearts. They
were allowed to keep the king they chose and the king chosen for them by
God.
Response
Wow, so you mean to tell me that if I am married to Billy Bob, then I
get involved with Bucky on the side, even though it's adultery to God, I
get to keep Bucky(the one I chose to sin with) AND Billy Bob(the
one God chose for me)?? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................
Comment/question
No
that isn't what I'm saying. Billy Bob will probably divorce you, go off
and get married again. If he becomes a Christian your saying he should
divorce his current wife and try to be reconciled to you. That is what
I'm saying is wrong with this teaching. For the guilty perhaps I could
go for it but for the innocent, it's entirely unjust.
Response
What if Billy Bob doesn't divorce me? What if he stays with me hoping I
will someday give up my lover? Is God ok with me having BOTH men? Also,
why do you differentiate concerning the "guilty"? Either a marriage is
dissolved by a remarriage/divorce/adultery or it is not...........being
the "guilty" party or innocent does not change whether an original
marriage is intact or not in regards to "some" remarriages.
Comment/question
If
you are married to Billy Bob then of course you must repent of the
adultery.
Response
By repent, you mean to forsake that sinful union, right?
Comment/question
But
if you are divorced, and you married Bucky, it may be horrible to Billy
Bob that the marriage born of adultery exist but there is still no
biblical demand to divorce.
Response
Ah, but Jesus said that the new union was adultery, so the divorce did
not dissolve the original marriage, did it? If it did not dissolve the
original marriage, then wouldn't a "remarriage/adulterous union" be the
same thing in the Lord's eyes as an extramarital affair---especially
when one of the original partners (say the "innocent" one) wants the
marriage restored?
Comment/question
Wonderful if Billy Bob doesn't want to give up on reconciliation
Response
Yes, because that would fulfill Billy Bob's vows in tthe Lord's sight
concerning the marriage. Billy Bob would be walking out I Cor. 13 and
would reflect the Lord Jesus Christ in his actions towards an
erring/adulterous wife.
Comment/question
if
you divorce him and marry your lover, Billy Bob should now move it
along.
Response
The problem with that is that there is NO scripture which shows it ok
for an adulteress to "move on" and then have that second relationship
sanctioned while her first husband is alive. To the contrary, we have
God's Word which states the EXACT opposite of what you speak---
Comment/question
If
Billy bob divorces you and remarries, you have no claim when you decide
to repent. You lost out! You also at that point need to move it along.
Response
No, scripture teaches that Billy Bob too will commit adultery if he
joins with another woman. Scripture teaches that EVERY man
who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery (here is the
all inclusive, PDC-----I noticed you placed GREAT emphasis on all
inclusive terms). For those who continue to state that they take ALL
scripture into account, I see the exact opposite. Those who teach
remarriage adultery CAN be continued, are resting on 1 passage that is
taken out of context. A man who divorces such a wife (even if she is
repentant) is at odds with the Lord Jesus----who is ready to forgive ALL
who repent and ready to reconcile them to Himself. What you are teaching
is that man (especially saved man who is a REPRESENTATIVE of Jesus
Christ on this earth) does not have to do as Jesus does, but instead can
follow that which appeals to the FLESH instead.
Comment/question
Should you have married Bucky? No. But the fact remains that you did and
that can be said of many who haven't come to Christ yet. I simply reject
a second divorce as being the solution to this problem.
Response
You reject that because you must believe that although Jesus calls the
second union adultery, you believe that new vows supercede the original
vows, yes? You reject that Jesus sees this new union as adulterous, even
though that is exactly how HE labels it.
Comment/question
When
Jesus called these marriages adultery, He stopped right there. He didn't
leave any instruction as to what to do. He told no one to divorce.
Response
So, because you think in such a manner, then you also believe it was AOK
for the woman at the well return to the man she was living
with.............because Jesus didn't give her exact instructions on how
to handle that relationship???
Comment/question
The
same is true of Paul. In all the marital issues that he dealt with,
there is not one time he suggested that the remarried couple should
divorce. It's just not there. It's been added to the Word and that's a
real problem.
Response
No one has added anything to the Word. Jesus and Paul BOTH taught that
we are to forsake (repent) our sin. Are you now saying that we should
NOT forsake our sin as it is made known to us as such? That until we see
every single particular situation addressed in detail, we don't have to
forsake our sin, we can continue to practice those things the Lord calls
sin.
Comment/question
There
can be no doubt pain is involved. Both sides experience that. Those who
have been hurt and those who have inflicted the hurt. Unfortunately the
children do suffer as a result of the parents actions. That is just a
fact. That doesn't mean however, that a second divorce will solve the
problems.
Response
The problem that a Christian should be concerned with is not so much
that actions he/she takes will improve their life/other's lives(solve
their problems), it is that they are being obedient to the Lord by
forsaking the sin they are in, no matter what the cost! Sometimes
forsaking an adulterous unions does not "feel" pleasant, but the one who
leaves their sin behind will walk with the assurance that all is well
between them and the Lord---and there is NOTHING more important than
that.
Comment/question
The
issue I was addressing is whether it is biblical to divorce a second
time. That is the point of the posting. I know you won't agree based on
your stand but your response is not addressing the Scripture.
Response
Is is biblical? Yes. Read again Ezra 9-10. Do you discount THAT event,
which very much more reflects this discussion (unlike the Sam. passage
you quoted).
Comment/question
Sometimes it helps to see injustice when you deal from the perspective
of the innocent (not sinless) spouse. For example, when dealing with a
man whose wife left him for another man, divorced him and married her
lover, I think it's easier to see how unjust this teaching is regarding
this man getting remarried. What this teaching does is hold the innocent
in bondage to the guilty until the guilty decides to change, if they
decide to repent which may not happen at all. That's a problem.
Response
What I can see from your reasonings is that it is flesh based, not
spirit based. We are called to LOVE those who hurt us............not
retaliate, not fix our lives how we want them to be.............we are
called to LOVE----especially those to whom the Lord joined us together.
Again, Paul teaches that every man/woman is to have their OWN spouse,
not someone elses. I know this is offensive for some, but I cannot help
saying that what is going on in the church and world is nothing more
than husband/wife swapping and that I am confident to say is
reprehensible to the Lord and an affront to the marriage covenant
relationship HE created.
Comment/question
All your doctrine is really doing is causing folks to stay in permanent
separated states because they never divorce. They don't live together.
Response
It doesn’t matter if a civil divorce takes place or not. Divorce does
not dissolve what God joined together. That is why remarriage is
adultery. To stay in a permanent separated state is not the Lord's will
either. If that does happen it means one or both are in rebellion to the
Lord.
Comment/question
If you want to be single. Great!!!
Response
Yes, I Corinthians 7:10-11. "Remain unmarried or be reconciled".
Comment/question
If not, remarry as the Scripture tells us of the unmarried but this
limbo thing is highly out of order whether it be legal (they didn't get
divorced) or it be all in the mind.
Response
You are adding to the Word of God allowances that are just not
there-----allowances that will cause your brother/sister to stumble
(sin).
Comment/question
I guess I wonder what makes them adulterous. Maybe the issue is not
whether the divorce dissolved the marriage or not. Maybe a clue comes
from understanding what Jesus meant when he called those who looked for
a sign an "adulterous generation". Was it the looking for a sign that
made them adulterous? I don't think so. This is just a thought at the
moment.
Response
You better get this down straight before you continue to counsel people
that divorce dissolves marriages that God joined together. Making
statements of fact, when in fact, you are not solidified on the issue is
harmful at the very least.
Comment/question
“If
it did not dissolve the original marriage, then wouldn't a
"remarriage/adulterous union" be the same thing in the Lord's eyes as an
extramarital affair---especially when one of the original partners (say
the "innocent" one) wants the marriage restored?”
I'll
get back to you on this one after I check out the above.
Response
Again, you need to study to show yourself approved BEFORE you speak that
remarriage is merely a "one time sin of entrance". Until you can prove
BY THE WORD OF GOD, that covenant marriages are dissolved by a divorce,
you should not be teaching that.
Comment/question
But
there are also many more scriptures that say that Jesus meets us in this
place that we are in, so that where He is, we may be also.
Response
The passage you quoted is taken out of context. Jesus is speaking of a
FUTURE time........a time when He will come again and gather all that
are TRULY His (Eph. 1:10, II Thess. 2:1, James 5:7)............
Does He meet us where we are at while we have sin??? Absolutely, but He
does not allow us to STAY in our sin if we belong to Him. He died that
we may be FREE from the bondage of sin.
Comment/question
The
Lord comes out of his place to punish …which means it is not His
place…Isa is speaking of it as… being out of his place...to punish.
Response
Ah, and concerning those who profess to know Him, but continue in
iniquity (lawlessness), He says He will cast them away (Matthew 7:21-24)
Comment/question
The
way you are presenting the word…this is called judging according to the
flesh…because there is witness that God does forgive the sin of
adultery.
Response
You misrepresent me, as usual. I DO believe there is forgiveness
available to those who commit adultery----whether it is "secret" sin or
"open" sin.............however, there is no indication in scripture that
one can rightly confess Christ AND continue to practice lawlessness.
Comment/question
For
example, the woman caught in adultery, the Lord forgave her and told her
to go sin no more. But, to someone else that may mean that He forgives
the adultery (the remarriage, so you call it) and you should have
learned from your mistake and not go out and commit adultery again.
Adultery is defined as sleeping with someone that is married or as you
say, remarrying if your former spouse is alive, correct? Well, if I
don't go out and sleep with someone whose married or if I'm married
and/or if I don't go out and divorce my current spouse (remarried one)
and marry someone else while they are alive, then I technically am not
committing that sin again, right?
Response
There is a BIG gap in our understanding of the nature of adultery. It
appears that you believe the adultery of a second marriage is just
the entrance into such a marriage?
The big difference in our views is that those who believe all FIRST
marriages are binding until death see the second marriage as null and
void---scripturally speaking---unlawful, because one is already joined
to another in the sight of God. The reason we see this is because one
can't commit adultery with a person AND be lawfully
married(remarriage) to that same person at the same time. The very
definition of adultery is that one is joining with SOMEONE ELSE'S
SPOUSE. When does the covenant spouse cease being the lawful
spouse in God's eyes----at death (
When Jesus says to "go and sin no more", He meant for her to stop
committing adultery----based upon her PRIOR acts/relationships that were
adulterous. What you are saying is that relationships Jesus deems as
adulterous, He now gives permission to enter back into those relations
as long as one has confessed their sin. The problem with this thought is
that confession NEVER changes the nature of a relationship. All
confession is doing is coming into agreement with God, that what He has
said is sin, is sin. If He says a "marriage" is adultery, then in TRUE
repentance, we also say such a "marriage" is adultery. When we walk out
that repentance (show forth "fruit" of that), we not only confess such a
relationship is sin, we then forsake that relationship.
We do not believe every situation should have a different outcome when
adultery is involved. To repent from adultery is to stop committing
adultery with whoever one is committing adultery with----whether it is
in forsaking an extra-marital relationship or a "legalized" unlawful
marriage in God's sight.
Comment/question
I
must admit, I've been lurking around this particular thread lately, and
have been greatly fascinated. I am not married, but I have been very
concerned about this fact, as I do intend to marry in the future and I
want my union to be pleasing in the eyes of the Lord.
I would like to say to (Name Deleted) lastblast (CindyW), that your
posts have been excellent, and have confirmed in scripture and Spirit
what I have been sensing from the Spirit all along.
.......................
..................I must say, about two years back I came to this
reality, that there are possible thousands and thousands of CHRISTIANS
living in adulterous relationships called second, third and fourth
marriages that I truly became afraid and I stopped posting on the
subject. But the Spirit of God kept urging me on, that this was true. I
remember reading in Revelations about a church that taught adultry. And
I was stumped that a church that named itself afte the living God would
encourage adultry. Then it occurred to me that all of these second,
third and fourth marriages were adulterous. ........
Response
Thank you for the nice words and also for sharing what the Lord has
shown you. I am seeing more and more just how many of us are coming to
the truth of the "ONE FLESH"............I praise God for that because I
know that as more and more of us come to this truth, generations after
us (should the Lord delay His coming), will benefit!
As I have stated before on this thread, my own family is racked with
divorce/remarriage (even among confessing Christians), so when I started
"seeing" what I now know to be truth, it was FRIGHTENING.........and did
cause me to draw back----for a time. However, as you are now feeling,
when the Lord shows you something of this great importance, there is a
reason..........and we have to walk it out, pleasant or not.
Comment/question
Pay
attention to the Scriptures that are often explained away, redefined or
given some alternate meanings foreign to the audience and that will tip
you off a little.
Response
There are at least 2 scriptures that are explained away in favor of
allowing remarriage. The remarriage is ok camp can not, has not, been
able to explain why it is that CHRISTIANS are permitted to remarry after
a separation (I Cor. 7:10-11)in spite of what the Word of God says to
the contary. Another passage which is poo-pooed is Rom. 7:2-3 which
clearly shows that the original marriage bond endures until
death----even in the face of a second marriage. We also see that Paul
calls a woman who marries while her husband is alive, an adulteress.
Some can say, "well Paul wasn't giving an in depth teaching on marriage
there, he was using an analogy of Christ/law". The problem is that
Paul's analogy was PERFECT. The other problem for the pro remarriage
camp is that they cannot explain why it is that Paul used an adulterous
woman in his analogy of lifelong marriage, if adultery/divorce/or
remarriage dissolved what God joined together.
Comment/question
For
the people who were asking "so, is it wrong for such and such a person
to marry again", based on what was the outcome of a prior marriage, I
would say this- Jesus said "Neither do I condemn thee go and sin no
more" as a direct quote to someone in Screipture. Remember that story?
Response
Jesus said, "Go and SIN NO MORE"..........what you are teaching is that
it is ok to go BACK into a sinful relationship. Again, NEVER has it been
proven by anyone on this thread, nor anyone I can find, that the
RELATIONSHIP Jesus calls adultery, somehow changes into a lawful
marriage upon confession (acknowledgment of one's sinful condition in
the Lord's sight). Confession NEVER changes the NATURE of a
relationship. Either the relationship is being lived out wrong, or it is
not. Adultery means one is joining themself with another they are NOT
free to be with.
Comment/question
Now, if a LEGALLY divorced man takes a new wife, no matter how tender
and faithful he is, he is tossed into the same sin bracket as a married
man who cheats on his wife.
Response
This is where some have issue. Who says the
man's first marriage is dissolved? The state who issues the divorce
decree, the person or person's married, or God? Does a "civil" divorce
dissolve what God has joined together? From Jesus' own words, it does
not appear to be so. Why are we changing HIS definition of a form of
adultery, saying these relationships ARE approved by God, when it
appears scripturally they are not. Why do we think that such men should
be put in leadership positions, when it appears God says "no". Whose
judgment are we resting upon----His or our own?
I personally see a huge problem in the confessing church today which has
led to where we are at presently. What we are doing is the same exact
thing that the Cor. church was doing----in our desire to appear "full of
grace" and "merciful" we are allowing sin in the camp........yet, is
this ok with the Lord? (I Cor. 5)
Comment/question
When a man commits adultery and divorces His wife, was God in control?
Could God have stopped the man? Is God not capable of answering the
wife's prayers for reconciliation? Why does it happen? Explain this from
Scripture please.
Response
There is God's perfect will and there is His permissive will. Many
children are molested and violently murdered. Is God in control in those
situations? Yes, He is, though why He allows such evil to continue is
beyond our comprehension. Does He allow a spouse to stray and become
guilty of adultery? Absolutely. He has given man free will and the right
to exercise that free will within the bounds of His permissive will.
Will
God answer a woman's prayers? Yes. Will He answer them in the timing and
way SHE wants? Perhaps no...........and therein lies the problem. If
something doesn't happen in our time frame, we think God has either
"released" us(because something hasn't happened in the time we expected
it to) or we get disheartened and believe He isn't listening. That is
where His Word is essential. We are told to walk by faith, not by sight.
We need to keep plugging along----no matter what we see or don't see, we
know the Lord IS listening and doing a work----in HIS time.
Comment/question
There is a false teaching prevalent today that spreads the lie that you
cannot marry again after divorce. Yet it is just a legalist lie born of
modern Pharisees and many have been swept into it. May God have mercy on
them
Response
See I Corinthians. 7:10-11, Matthew 5:32, Matthew. 19:9, Luke. 16:16-18,
Mark. 10:12
Comment/question
How does adultery turn into a lawful marriage? Marriage is already
lawful, but repentance is needed to restore your relationship to God IF
you are in adultery of any kind.
Response
Jesus called a marriage after a divorce, adultery. Adultery is NOT
lawful. Adultery means you are having unlawful relations with another
person's spouse. You cannot be "lawfully" married and committing
adultery at the same time.
Comment/question
How do you get out of that adultery? It depends on the adultery, but in
all you repent of your sins to God and restore your relationship to God.
Response
How does one get out of adultery? They forsake the adulterous
relationship. There is no other way and there is no NT scripture that
teaches adultery "changes" into a lawful marriage, joined as "one flesh"
by God. The true fruit of repentance of any sin is the forsaking of that
sin............not confession and staying in a relationship Jesus calls
adultery.
Comment/question
If you divorced previously and are now married again, you remain
married. THAT is what is required of the consequences. You stay and
stick it out. You do the right thing and be faithful to your spouse, be
a godly spouse, and never attempt to go back to the former spouse.
Because if you do go back to them then that action IS adultery.
Response
How would forsaking adultery and being reconciled with one's lawful
spouse, be adultery? It is forsaking sin to return to, if possible, the
"one flesh" God joined-----the "one flesh" Paul teaches will not be
separated until death (
Comment/question
And you don't always get the chance to restore what was lost in sin.
Response
This is very true and this is why many should think long and hard, first
before they divorce and secondly before they enter into a second
marriage that Jesus calls adultery.
Comment/question
How does a murderer repent and restore their relationship to God? They
seek forgiveness, but they cannot restore life to what is dead. And
neither can a man divorce his current wife and return to a dead vow
Response
And so it goes with those who commit adultery............sometimes they
cannot get back what they lost.........That is the horrible effects of
sin. However, just as God does not give a murderer carte blanche to
continue his/her murders and be AOK with Him, He also does not allow His
followers to remain in sexual sin without it affecting His relationship
with us. If a person DOES depart, and desires to follow the Lord, Paul
teaches they are to remain unmarried----even if reconciliation is not
possible.
PS.
Using children as a reason to continue living in adultery is just not
biblical.........in the OT nor NT, so I'm not quite sure why that
particular point keeps coming up in people's reasons for staying in a
second marriage. If the "children" are such a concern, what about the
children of 1st marriages? Why isn't it important to SHOW them what
unconditional love is toward a spouse? Isn't that Christ's
desire-----that we show our children who HE is through the choices we
make? While ANY of us still have breath in us, will He forsake us due to
sin?
Also,
concerning Deut. 24:1-4, yes, the truth is that Jesus THREW this
allowance out. The thing too that always gets ignored is that the woman
was ALLOWED to remarry----without sin. In other words, she was NOT an
adulteress. Her second marriage WAS lawful. However, Jesus' teachings on
divorce and remarriage is VERY different. In the NT, a remarriage after
a divorce is called ADULTERY. Paul in Rom. 7:2-3 taught that if a woman
marries another while her husband lives, she shall be called an
adulteress. Yet, if her husband dies and then she marries another, she
will not be an adulteress. It's very clear that these passages in the OT
and NT are VERY different.
Comment/question
1 Cor 7:10-11 and Luke 16:18 do not address adultery at all yet Jesus
specifically calls it out in Matthew 5:32 and again in Matthew 19:9.
Response
But Paul DID address adultery in Romans 7:2-3. It doesn't dissolve the
1st marriage bond in the case of "extra marital" adultery or in the case
of adultery committed by a remarriage.
Comment/question
I believe that there are two requirements that must be met before a
remarriage is permitted. First, reconciliation must not be possible. I
think the standards are pretty high on this one, but the most common
reasons for this would be the death of a spouse, the remarriage of a
spouse, or abandonment of an unbelieving spouse. Although I believe that
almost always the spouse who initially remarries is in sin when they
choose to remarry, I do believe that leaving the door open to
reconciliation at this point is wrong because it would require the
breaking of a new marriage covenant in order to restore the old one. I
think this is really the heart of the passage in Deut. 24:1-4.
Response
Ok, let me ask you this: what is the difference in EXTRA-MARITAL
adultery before/after a divorce and the adultery that occurs with a
remarriage. The definition of adultery does not change........in both
cases it means to have unlawful relations with someone who is NOT your
spouse. In regards to the marriage vows taken in a remarriage, if they
are in adultery that means they are joining with someone who is NOT
their spouse. Do you believe taking a vow one is not free to take
nullifies the original vow?
I
don't agree with that interpretation of Deut. 24. The wife is not
defiled by the second marriage, the defilement was supposedly BEFORE the
original divorce took place. It was THAT reason, and the allowance for
the man to put away this defiled woman, that he was not allowed to take
her again---------OT law, not applicable for New Covenant peoples.
Comment/question
Second, I believe that their must be complete repentance and a history
that reflects that repentance before even "dating", let alone remarrying
Response
What is repentance? Is it not only a heart change, but also forsaking
sin? If one is in an adulterous relationship, doesn't true repentance
require stopping the adultery?
Comment/question
I think the theologically difficult questions are: are there any other
circumstances could make reconciliation impossible?; one, one extreme
example that could fall in to this category would be a spouse who
commits murder and is sent to prison for life. How long must someone be
abandoned before remarriage is permitted? or, Who decides whether the
spouse who is abandoning a marriage is a believer?
Response
I think scripture is pretty clear in this situations, though many will
not follow God's commands, but would rather "reason" why they SHOULD be
allowed to transgress the Lord's Word to them. The Lord commanded,
through Paul, that in such cases a woman/man should REMAIN UNMARRIED or
be reconciled. If a woman's husband is in jail, she needs to walk out
Mt. 25 towards him...........not abandon him for another man. That is
what we ALL have been called to-----as ministers of reconciliation.
Comment/question
He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman
commits adultery against her. Mr 10:11
Here is the way I read this if any man divorces and marries another
woman he would be committing adultery against her {his wife} because of
the vows he made to her before God and he would be going against Gods
original plan for marriage. One should have remorse for sinning
{committing adultery} they should repent. If they do repent God will
forgive them. Even adulterers. I do not see remarriage as a continual
state of adultery like some of you do.
Response
Let's interpret this verse in a more simplified way. Instead of
restating what you believe this to mean, let's just insert the
definition of adultery into that and leave everything else the same.
"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another has unlawful
intercourse"................and if we add that to what is said in Mt.
19:9 and Lk. 16:18, we get this: "Anyone who marries one put away has
unlawful intercourse with another's wife"..........
So, I think it's plain to see, alongside what Paul teaches in Rom. 7,
that the adultery consists of being in an unlawful relationship with
SOMEONE ELSE'S spouse----in God's sight. We may "think" we are lawfully
married to someone, but what does God say? He says in the very act of
marriage, we are committing adultery----having unlawful relations with
someone who is NOT our spouse. How can one then think this person IS
their spouse, when the very definition of adultery disputes that this is
the person one is married to? With that thought then, how would it be
that one can STAY in such a relationship and believe themself to truly
be walking out repentance?
Comment/question
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath
joined together, let not man put asunder. Mt 19:6
Again here I see this as one should not go against Gods original plan
for marriage because the two become one so the two should not let any
man-woman put the marriage asunder. But if they do there is still
forgiveness here also.
Response
This is a command. If one does not abide by it, it does not mean God is
obliged to dissolve what He joined together. He has already stated HOW a
marriage is to be dissolved that He joined together (
Comment/question
Cindy,
I've noticed that you have asked this question a lot throughout this
whole forum. No one has yet been able to say exactly when a relationship
God calls sin, turns into one that is not sin.
Response
Yes, you are right and that is a scary thing because it leads us down
the road to, "every man does what is right in his own sight"---which is
what some in this forum are saying when they cannot give a definitive
answer as to when adultery becomes a lawful marriage.
Comment/question
Not that it hasn't already been said before in this forum, but the
(remarriage) covenant becomes binding at the point when someone commits
themselves to a marriage covenant with another (even when doing so is in
sin), but it is only not sinful when their has been repentance.
Response
You still have not provided any scripture to prove what you say is
biblical truth. Can you explain how this new covenant supercedes the
previous one? Do you feel that still applies when one of the spouses' is
remaining faithful to the covenant they entered into-----until death? Do
you feel that the other who IS sinning has somehow punched through a sin
gauntlet and now is AOK in the Lord's sight? Do you have scripture that
you can share with those who are remaining faithful, believing their
spouses to be in the sin of adultery due to a new marriage, scripture
that will clearly show them they are free from the bond of marriage due
to their husband's new vow to another woman?
Comment/question
The validity of the marriage covenant made with the second, third, etc..
wives never seems to be called into question anywhere in the bible, and
seems to have been valid the moment the covenant was made, even though
these vows were clearly made in sin. The absence of any scripture (OT or
NT) that clearly shows that the covenant of a second is considered
invalid because it was entered into in a sinful way makes it very
difficult for me to make that assumption. Because there are clear
references in the bible relating to the prohibition of divorce that
appear to be unqualified in regards to whether the marriage is a first
or second marriage, I personally could not ever recommend that someone
get a divorce.
Response
The problem you are facing is that you cannot explain how the first
covenant is dissolved. It is VERY clear that Jesus does not recognize
divorce as dissolving the first covenant. That means the first spouse is
STILL the spouse when a remarriage takes place----that is why Jesus
calls it adultery. You bring in OT examples. Let's look at those. In the
ones you brought forth, did the first wives cease being a wife when more
wives were brought in? No. As a matter of fact, God seems to place MORE
value in the marriage on the FIRST wife.
In any case, we are not speaking of polygamy.........we are speaking of
a second marriage after a divorce. You seem to think a new vow
supercedes the original vow, but Jesus says the very opposite of
that----He says those who enter into this new marriage are committing
adultery. You can't be married to a person lawfully AND
committing adultery with that person at the same time. Impossible.
Comment/question
This is simply a false statement, I have provided many scriptural
references throughout this discussion. You may choose not to interpret
those scriptures as I do, but it simply not true to say that I did not
provide any references.
Response
I don't mean to be wrongly offensive, but I don't believe you have
provided ANY scriptures which state what you believe to be truth: that a
second marriage nullifies the first marriage. To hold that view and
speak it as truth, you must be able to show, from scripture that this is
the case. To me, it is a very weak argument and not one that can be
supported biblically. What we do have is Jesus declaring a second
marriage as adultery. As I said, you can't be lawfully married in God's
eyes AND also be declared guilty of adultery. The second can only be
adultery because God see the first couple as still bound together, and
the second NOT bound together by Him..........and if that be the case,
then it is truth that repentance would mean forsaking the second
relationship.
Comment/question
I did explain how I believe the covenant is dissolved; as I have stated
I believe that a second marriage covenant is valid even if it began in
sin i.e. adultery. The details and scripture references I have already
given in previous posts. Again I accept your right not to accept my
explanation, but it is untrue to say that I did not give an explanation.
Response
I too accept your right not to align with my views, but I still do not
believe you have presented a good case for what you say you believe. You
are putting all your belief on what we read in Mose's law........the
problem you have is that you cannot explain how it is that David took
back his wife AFTER she married another.........and there is absolutely
no record of him sinning by doing this. He took her back because she did
not belong to the second man she married. She was David's wife.......so
in that case a "vow" did not dissolve the marriage...........same with
the priest of Mal. 2:10-17. The biggest problem is that I don't see the
"vow dissolves a previous marriage joined by God" taught anywhere in the
NT either. All we see spoken of by Jesus(and Paul) is that the second
union is sinful.
Comment/question
The point of showing the examples of polygamous relationships in the
bible, was to show examples of marriages that began in sin, but in which
the bible does not seem to question the validity of the marriage
covenant. What you have not provided is an example where the bible makes
clear that the covenant of a second marriage is invalid because it began
in sin.
Response
So you believe polygamy is ok with God, then........and in such cases a
second wife should be retained? Oh, and I just had this thought: If a
second vow dissolves the first vow, how does that work with polygamy? Do
you believe the first wife then is no longer a wife, but only the
second?
Comment/question
Additionally, in the passage in Mt. 19 where Jesus state a clear
exception i.e. marital unfaithfulness in regards to remarriage, you have
simply ignored it.
Response
No, I've addressed my belief on that many, many times throughout this
thread. I have stated time and again that Jesus could NOT have been
giving permission to remarry due to adultery within a marriage because
that would contradict everything else He taught, not only on marriage,
but on forgiveness, reconciliation, TRUE agape love, etc. Not only that,
but that rendering also conflicts with Paul's teaching that even in the
face of adultery, the marriage bond survives until the death of one of
the spouses. This is also what the early church believed/taught, and I
believe they were rightly dividing the Word of Truth. The reformation
church threw the baby out with the bathwater when dealing with what they
perceived where RC practices, but actually the truth is that the VERY
earliest churches all taught that marriage was until death (not just an
"ideal", but actually was binding until death---even if a spouse was in
unrepentant adultery).. I cannot find fault with this view, biblically
speaking.
Comment/question
Marry again, God loves ugly. We all sin, Jesus Forgives, follow your
heart with compassion. Good Luck.
Response
If one truly has GOD'S compassion in them, they will love the one they
bound themselves to for LIFE-----for better or worse(that is inclusive
of all sin), in sickness and in health (even in severe mental illness),
for richer or poorer(even if being poor is a result of sin), TIL DEATH
DO US PART (Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39).
You are teaching worldliness, which is opposed to the Gospel of God.
Jesus will say one day to those who profess to know His name, yet
practice sin: "Depart from me, you worker of iniquity(lawlessness)" Mt.
7:21-24. To tell someone to go again and marry again, when God has
called such actions adultery, is to encourage one to sin.........and
Jesus said, "woe, to those who cause my little ones to
stumble(sin)"............True Godly compassion will lead a person to
give counsel that lines up with the heart/Word of God........because we
know, it is THERE true life is found.
Comment/question
If the person you married doesn't love you and states it, there is no
question to whether you should stay or not, that is obviously a sign
from God beyond scripture.
Response
It is a sign alright. It is a sign that the spouse who says such a thing
NEEDS JESUS. If we HAVE JESUS, why should we then want to leave
such a person? Should we not desire to minister LOVE to that person who
does not have the love of Christ----the one God joined us to?
Comment/question
NO, what I am saying is that I don't accept your definition of what God
says is adultery, and most Christians who have studied the same passages
don't accept your definition as well.
Response
Jesus said "MANY will come to me in that day, saying "Lord,
Lord"".............the "many" do not hold sway with me any longer. I am
beyond accepting what is popular because I have seen what is popular
many times is very far from God and Truth. If you reject my definition
of adultery(which is based upon the greek lexicon's definition of
adultery)-----what definition do you go by?
Comment/question
Many Christians who reject the idea of "cheap" grace you presented here,
as I do, will still reject your teaching because it places a requirement
of works for salvation based on a Law you have told us the bible
teaches, but one that most do not see in scriptures.
Response
Maybe you can explain who the "many" are in Mt. 7:21-24? Just for the
record, I do not believe "works" save us. I believe it is only trusting
in the accomplishment of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection, that
we can be saved, IF He is truly Lord in our lives. If we
have not submitted to His Lordship in our lives (and that doesn't always
mean instant obedience/perfection), they He is not our Lord/Saviour. He
is very clear that only those who walk the "narrow" path will be saved.
Many claim to be Christians, but are certainly not willing to walk the
"narrow" path.......do you believe them saved?
Also, the truth is that there are people from both the Calvinistic camp
as well as the Arminian camp who believe marriage is for life (not an
ideal, but literally is binding for life)..........and they DO believe
Paul when Paul said that the adulterer (as well as the many other
lifestyle sins listed) will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Do you
believe the adulterer WILL inherit the
Comment/question
From what I have read in your posts it seems clear that you equate
"knowing the scriptures" to mean understanding them as you do, am I
missing something?
Response
Hmm, well, only God Himself can discern if someone "knows" and is being
rebellious, or they know what the Word says, yet lack understanding
concerning application/deeper spiritual truths. Personally, I cannot
understand how a person can KNOW God's Word concerning making things
right with a brother/sister before bringing an offering to Him, yet take
another sister/brother's spouse as their own and think that ok before
the Lord............but there again, they may know what the Word says on
this, but do not UNDERSTAND the enormity of transgressing this. It seems
the man in Malachi 2 fits this exactly.
Comment/question
Nobody has suggested that marriage should not be between one man and one
woman for a lifetime, I believe we all agree that it should.
Response
The problem is some of us don't believe marriages 'SHOULD' be for life,
we believe marriage IS for life. That is a HUGE difference in doctrine.
Because we believe marriages ARE for life, how we view the solution is
completely at odds with how you view the solution (actually you do not
have a solution to for this sin. You can't say more people need to be
saved and walk with the Lord, because MANY of the divorce/remarriages
are occurring with those who profess to already be following the Lord).
Comment/question
What we don't agree on is YOUR solution to the problem when people have
failed (sinned) because it does not align with God's word.
Response
If I "failed" and married my brother, is it ok to stay in that
marriage??? Even if it's lawful in the country I'm in? Where do you draw
the line on illicit relationships that are ok to be stayed in and not ok
to be stayed in?
Comment/question
The problem here which will continue to be a problem is that you don't
see divorce & remarriage as severing the marital bond. For those who are
divorced and remarried, they are not sleeping with someone else's
spouse. They are intimate with their OWN SPOUSE.
Response
You say that, but that is not what Jesus says. He says such people
commit adultery. Unless you can show that what He says is NOT adultery,
then it IS adultery.........it DOES mean that whosoever
marries after a divorce or marries a divorced person is having UNLAWFUL
relations with someone who is NOT their spouse. That IS the
definition of adultery. It doesn't make me happy to say that as I have
people in my life that I love dearly, but I cannot deny Jesus' words, no
matter how much I care for those who are in sin.
Comment/question
Could this 1st marriage be the result of sin? Of course! That sin can
disobedience to God (marrying someone God told you not to). That sin
could have been greed. That sin could have been one drunken night in
Response
None of those sins dissolve what the Lord has joined together.
Comment/question
Adultery like every other sin mentioned here can be forgiven but they
are not required to divorce in order to obtain forgiveness. If they
become Christians and want there marriages to work out and both are
willing, who are you to say they should divorce because they sinned and
marriage was the result?
Response
Ok, then you should also feel comfortable telling people in EXTRA
marital adultery that it's ok for them to keep their "honey" on the side
and still be AOK with the Lord.
The fact remains, the Lord, in His Word, doesn't differentiate between
the kinds of adultery, making one kind acceptable to remain in, while
calling those involved in the other kind of adultery to forsake it. Why
are you doing that?
Comment/question
You're taking adultery and turning it into a sin greater than any other
and asking folks to divorce for this but in all the other situations,
there is no call to divorce. Sin is sin and if you hold to this standard
then where does the door shut? How can you make adultery the standard
for divorce and allow other marriages formed as a result of other sin to
remain intact? That is not using fair and balanced scales.
Response
As I have stated numerous times, I do not believe ALL divorce is
bad/sin. God accepted divorce as an act of repentance and His judgment
on the nation of
Let me also make clear: adultery is NOT a worse sin than many other
sins. MOST all of us have been guilty of adultery(the various forms of
it). However, the issue here is with one CONTINUING in a relationship
the Lord has called sin. Whether it is concerning an adulterous union, a
lifestyles of stealing, drunkenness, drug abuse, lying,
etc.............all who profess to be walking with Jesus are called to
renounce such sins. If they refuse, they are not walking/abiding in Him,
no matter how much they try and convince themselves or put on a "face"
for others. Those who are abiding in Him see through such fascades and
are saddened to see the hold deception has on those involved.
Comment/question
I get your point here but this is not what we're talking about. We are
not talking about a married couple in which one of them is having an
extra marital affair. We are talking about divorced folk who have since
remarried. Two different things.
Response
If you get my point, then you realize that BOTH types of relationships
are adultery---they are on equal footing, scripturally. You seem to fail
to see this. For some reason, you think a piece of paper makes a
relationship that God calls sin, now lawful. If God has not dissolved
the ONE FLESH He joined together, then it is not dissolved. That is why
He calls remarriage adultery-----because He did not dissolve the
previous marriage. It is still intact. I think you will agree that the
"act" of adultery does not dissolve a marriage, yes? So, if that be the
case, what in your mind DOES dissolve what God joined together----a
paper signed by the state? Is God obligated to honor that which He has
called sin?
Comment/question
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another
commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband
commits adultery."
I have heard those better versed in Koine Greek suggest that this also
could be rendered:
"Everyone who divorces his wife IN ORDER TO marry another ...."
i.e. it was an invalid reason for divorce.
Response
Personally, I think that would be quite a faulty rendering
of that in light of the next part of the verse: "and he who
marries one who is divorced from her husband commits adultery".
It is pretty clear that "motive" for putting away is not the issue in
regards to guilt. It is the very act of marrying someone who does not
belong to you that brings guilt (the charge of adultery) upon someone.
Comment/question
You are stating that a person who leaves their first marriage and remarries is living in sin. While it appears that the bible (and the Lord) does say this, it bears much more exploring, with the cross in mind. For example, Mark 10:12 and Luke 16:18 say "And if a woman divorces her husband, and marries another, she commits adultery." This may simply mean that if the woman is simply divorcing her husband because she is tired of him, that she commits adultery. However, the intent here is that the divorced man/woman has gotten the divorce with the plan already set to marry another...in other words, with premeditated purpose to marry another.
Response
No, that view can be discounted in that Jesus charges
ANYONE who marries a divorced person with the same sin of adultery. He
is not speaking of the REASON for putting away. He is speaking to the
state of the person who either is already married in God's eyes and then
joins with another or one who takes one who is already joined to another
in the eyes of the Lord.
Comment/question
You are saying that divorce is not justified under the New
Covenant. Ok, then according to you, under the New Covenant, the
battered wife is bound to her drug-addict husband. The husband is now
coming home every night, beating his wife almost killing her , stealing
from her, sexually abusing her, etc. In a case like this, the marriage
covenant has been broken, along with so many other of the
commandments...and none have been the fault of the wife. Therefore, the
divorce has already been set by the wife, who after one night, being so
severely beaten by the husband, does come to Christ. According to you,
she is in the sin of adultery if she has found and married a Christian
man who loves her, cherishes her, and protects her as Christ loves,
cherishes, and protects his bride.
A Christian is led to believe, by the life of our Lord and Savior, that
they have been given a second chance. However, you nullify that, saying
that if a Christian were married a second time before coming to the
Lord, that marriage is invalid.
2 Corinthians 5:17 is directed towards the pharisees who simply wanted
an excuse to divorce their spouses "for any reasons." The pharisees, of
course, had "stony hearts", wanting the ability to sin, and to get away
with it. But a divorced, faithful, born-again Christian does not
willingly seek the ability/freedom to sin.
Response
When Jesus was speaking of marriage/divorce/remarriage, He
was speaking to the Pharisee----an unbeliever. Jesus' words/commands in
regards to marriage do not only apply to the believer. As a believer, we
are held more accountable for what we choose to do, but we must
acknowledge that marriage is not just for the believer----it is for all
mankind. For those women who are abused, the Lord has given His command:
"remain unmarried or be reconciled to your husband". If a "Christian"
man takes such a woman as wife, he has disobeyed the Lord, "whosoever
marries one divorced from her husband, commits adultery". Jesus does not
commit adultery in caring for the Bride.
Comment/question
A Christian is led to believe, by the life of our Lord and Savior, that they have been given a second chance. However, you nullify that, saying that if a Christian were married a second time before coming to the Lord, that marriage is invalid.
Response
To be spared from eternal torment/separation from the Lord
IS EVERY true believer's "second chance". Many come to the cross and
have to forsake things in their life that are sinful, when it is
revealed as such. This is the life of a True Christian. When Paul
speaks, "such WERE some of you"..............this means we used to do
these things, but now we quit committing adultery, quit committing
fornication, quit lying, quit stealing........... If we are still doing
these things, we are still in bondage to those sins---we have not
allowed Jesus to "free" us.
Comment/question
You haven't walked it, sister Cindy (lastblast), thank God. But I and many others here have. I don't think you can really relate unless you've had to walk it.
Response
We've
all sinned against others and we have sins committed against us, so
whether I have had the particular sins aimed against me that you have,
is irrelevant to be honest. There are those in this thread who DO
believe in lifelong marriage who are in your shoes. The truth is: all
sin is offensive---to man and God. Our response to sin is what matters
to the Lord. Our response to sin should not be to sin ourselves(in
getting what we wanted in our mates through some other person(s)), but
to walk out LOVE---as Christ loves.
Comment/question
Once our exs who divorced us, remarried someone else, the old covenant has been broken. God calls us to forgive and forget as HE does.
Response
Where
do you find this in scripture, (name deleted)? In Malachi 2 when the
Lord is speaking rebuke to the man who puts away his covenant
wife----the wife of his youth, and then takes another wife---He says He
rejects the offerings of such a man. He reiterates that the 1st wife is
the wife of the covenant (not the second).
Jesus says the 2nd spouse is committing adultery by marrying someone
else. Paul teaches that in spite of a woman's remarriage while her
husband is alive, she shall be called an adulteress. Do we see anywhere
in scripture where God EVER legitimizes such relationships "down the
road"? Believe me, I have looked and looked and have been unable to find
ANYWHERE in scripture where it says that a second unlawful marriage does
away with a first lawful marriage that has been joined by God Himself.
Comment/question
Perpetual adultery does not fit God's character and promise of forgiveness, when looking at the WHOLE of scripture.
Response
Then
if that be the case, there is no such thing as living in fornication or
homosexuality either. One can confess those illicit relationships as
being sin, and then go right back into them.
Comment/question
There is room for Christians to disagree about these passages, but there is no reason for this kind of dogmatism. Christians can really believe God's word to be absolutely true and still disagree with your interpretation of his word; we trust the authority of God's word, not the authority of your interpretation.
Response
Marriage either IS for life, (name deleted) or it is not.
There is no "room" for variances of opinion. We may all have differing
opinions, this is true, but some are wrong opinions---and do not line up
with the Truth found in God's Word. Either those standing for their
marriages are wrong, and they are falsely believing themselves to be
"joined" to their covenant spouse, or they are right, and their spouse
IS guilty of being in a STATE of adultery as are those who have joined
with someone else's spouse.
Comment/question
I don't believe for a moment that all marriages on earth are covenant/bound in God's eyes. Just because a marriage is "legal" here in our world that God acknowledges. He certainly does not recognize gay marriage.
Response
Absolutely true. If God calls a marriage "adultery", though
in the eyes of the land, it is "legal", it means nothing to God. He has
already defined how he looks at such a "marriage". As you said, the same
thing can be said about homosexual marriage. In both cases, they can
come to the Lord asking for forgiveness, but that "asking" does not
change either type of relationship into a legitimate one in His eyes.
Real repentance would require forsaking relationships He has deemed
sinful.
Comment/question
I am
not in an adultery situation.
I won't be if I remarry some day, as God forgave me for the failed
marriage.
He recognizes my divorce as being failed...divorce is considered sin,
and it has been forgiven.
Response
It may
be true, if you have repented for your sin in your marriage that the
Lord has forgiven you, but there is no biblical evidence found in
scripture that He wiped away your marriage. To the contrary, He has said
that those who are divorced will commit adultery should they remarry
(the guilty as well as the innocent). One cannot possibly be guilty of
adultery IF a divorce dissolved what God joined together.
People continually use Matthew 19:9 as "evidence" that an "innocent" can
remarry without sin, but Jesus did not say that. Instead, Jesus said
that whosoever marries the one put away commits adultery. How could the
one who marries a divorcee commit adultery if the divorcee was free due
to the covenant spouse's adultery? This is a point many fail to address
or they just ignore it altogether. The truth is we have a second witness
to this as well in Luke 16:18: "whosoever marries her that is divorced
commits adultery"..........
Comment/question
I am
sure Jesus would have called me a liar today and told me that I did not
want reconciliation.
That is all I have been praying for...and working towards.
I AM ALLOWED to have an opinion about remarriage even if I am working
toward reconciliation.
Response
I'm
sorry, (name deleted), but when I read your posts I get exactly the same
thing: you really DON'T want reconciliation. If you did, remarriage, and
the justifying you not being in sin if you DO do it, would not even
enter the discussion. You are looking at 2 doors.........if you cannot
enter the one door in what you believe is good timing, the other is a
very viable option for you. You cannot be thinking of "moving on" to
another person and truly be standing in faith for your marriage to be
restored. It is double-mindedness. Do you believe in the Love spoken of
in I Cor. 13? Do you believe only "part" of it towards your wife, or do
you truly believe ALL of it? If any of us have the Spirit of Christ
living within us, it is expected for us to walk out in FULL I Cor.
13----because it is no longer "I" that lives, but HE who lives within
me........no?
Comment/question
YOU DO
NOT KNOW ME! YOU DO NOT KNOW MY MOTIVATIONS!
YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT IS IN MY HEART!
I AM REPEAT I AM
ALLOWED to have an opinion of my own on remarriage.
Response
(Name
Deleted), do you believe that those who believe in the permanency of
marriage ALSO are entitled to voice their views---even in opposition to
those who DO believe they do not commit adultery upon remarriage?
I am in no way telling you you can't express your "opinion". What I am
saying is that I don't believe your "opinion" can be biblically
supported. Do I know your heart motivations? No, neither do those who
come along your belief that remarriage is NOT adultery. What I can see
is a precedent, not only in the issue of remarriage, but with many other
practices of immorality. Example: I say that I am seeking to remain pure
before marriage, yet if I "fall" with my intended and get married
anyways, it is not a big deal. I have two doors. One is the "good" door.
The other door is sin in the Lord's sight, but I have convinced myself
that it is not a "bad" sin. In doing such, I have in my heart, minimized
the sin and in doing so, will have a much greater chance at not going
through the "good" door when temptation/trials come my way.
Comment/question
I am
praying and working for reconciliation. I have two beautiful kids that
would love to see us back together. I have grown immensely in the past
year in my walk with God .
Response
That
is wonderful. I pray that you continue in your growth with Him, so that
you are empowered to walk the path He has allowed for you in such a way
that brings Him glory and draws others into His kingdom.
Comment/question
I am
here with an opinion. My opinion is every bit as legitimate as yours.
Response
No,
that is not true. If my "opinion" is not truth, then it is not
legitimate. The same goes for your opinions. If they are not based upon
truth, then they are illegitimate opinions based upon faulty reasonings.
Comment/question
I
never called you a liar.
Response
And I
never called you one. I did say that I see you as keeping your eye on
two doors at the same time---based upon all that you have stated in this
thread. When you say such things as "If I decide to remarry", you make
it much more than mere opinion----you show that you are pondering do it
yourself. One cannot be fully committed to honoring one's commitment to
marriage and working on restoration and speaking about joining with
another in the same breath. You may not see that as what you are doing,
but truly, when we speak in faith, we do not look for other
alternatives. We only speak that thing which we TRULY want to see come
to pass.
Comment/question
IT IS
STILL UP TO YOU TO DECIDE IN YOUR HEART WHAT THE BIBLE IS TELLING YOU...
They can believe me and my opinion, or they can believe you and your
opinion.
Response
Or
here is one even better: They believe GOD'S Word on the matter.
"whosoever shall put away one's spouse and marry another commits
adultery, and whosoever marries one divorced commits adultery"
For a wife is bound to her husband so long as he liveth, but if he be
dead, she is free to marry another, only in the Lord.
Comment/question
The
way you and (Name Deleted) put out your opinion just turns so many
people off...calling me a liar, telling remarried that must divorce or
forfiet the Kingdom.
Response
No,
that is not what we "say". Scripture says that the adulterer will not
inherit the kingdom of God. Paul was very urgent in his admonishment to
the brethren that they not be deceived in this area. Scripture also says
that those who remarry after a divorce commit adultery----the guilty as
well as the innocent. We can do with that as we like, and be held
accountable, but we cannot annul what God has declared, no matter what
our country's laws may state to the contrary.
Comment/question
Sorry,
God used Paul in his day, Paul was a murderer, He used David, he was an
adulterer, and a murderer, he used Moses who was a murderer..
Response
Neither remained murderers. They gave up their lives of sinfulness to
serve the living God.
Comment/question
Today,
he uses people like John Hagee, Joyce Meyers, they are both divorced and
remarried...scripturally...and he uses them for HIS KINGDOM.
Response
It is
the WORD of God which produces the fruit. God will use who He will
use----the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Comment/question
So,
you have determined that my opinion is not legitimate, by the
interpretation that you believe is to be true and correct in the Bible.
You state that your opinion would not be legit if it did not line up
with scripture.
Response
I said
that BOTH of our views/opinions do not matter if they are not based on
the TRUTH of God's Word. I did not say that neither of us use God's word
to support our view. You believe that divorce dissolves the bond of
marriage(hence you find no issue in someone remarrying after a divorce).
I see a big problem in doing such. I base my understanding on many
different passages spoken by both Jesus (Matthew 5:32, Matthew 19:9,
Mark 10:10-11, Luke. 16:18) and Paul (Romans 7:2-3, I Corinthians 7:39).
I also do not believe that I Corinthians 7:27 gives permission for a
divorced person to remarry without sin. I base my understanding of that
passage on all the other prohibitions on remarriage as well as the
knowledge that there are two different Greek words used in that passage
having to do with "loosed".........I believe that is why you will not
find in any translation the word "divorced" in the second part of that
passage---because if a divorced(from one's covenant spouse) DID marry,
they WOULD sin----Jesus said so.
Comment/question
He has
forgiven me of a failed marriage. He has forgiven me of my divorce. He
has wiped my slate clean.
Response
I
agree in part. Again, can you show where He wiped your marriage away? Do
you believe the "state" has the power to dissolve what God has joined
together?
Comment/question
I
believe that the Bible says that we are to obey the laws of the
land...yet the law says 65 mph...but many go 75 and never look at it as
sin.
Response
Oh, I
think you just answered my question above unfortunately. The thing is
that if we do speed, we ARE sinning because we are breaking the laws of
the land. As for marriage, if the law of the land says one's marriage is
dissolved---though God says one will commit adultery if they married,
who do we follow? Man, who says we are free to join with another, or God
who created man? Man's laws say it is legal to kill the unborn as well,
do we then say it ok because it is "legal"?
Comment/question
There
are those that lie on a daily basis and don't think of it as sin...
Response
It
does not matter what one "thinks" is a sin, it only matters what God
SAYS is sin. God's Word is clear on those who sin in a continually
unrepentant manner. Liars are listed with those who will not inherit the
kingdom of God......so if someone were to tell me that Joe-liar was a
confessed believer who was going to heaven someday---even if he never
stops living life as a liar---I would have a problem with such a
confession.
Comment/question
No
Cindy, I don't promote polygamy or say that God endorses it. What I do
say is that the weak attempt at logic put forth by the standers
cultists doesn't fly. They try to claim that God ONLY sees the first
wife as a REAL wife and that ALL the others are just whores and not
wives at all. Most inconveniently for them, Scripture simply WILL NOT
ALLOW such nuttery.
Response
Why
will scripture not allow it? Can you point me to scripture in which
Jesus says that God will join the 2, 3, 4, + and they shall be ONE
flesh? I only see Jesus saying the 2 will become ONE flesh. Are you
basing what you believe to be true based on the actions of men in the OT
who went against the creation intent for marriage?
Comment/question
Again,
I'm not the one here who is trying to put simplistic one dimensional
answers on complex real-life questions. That's the other guys; the
Standers Cult that does such silliness.
Response
If God
said something was sin (in regard to a married person joining with a
person OTHER than the one God joined them to), then it is clear that to
do so is sin. We don't need "complex" answers. The answer God gave us is
simple. We make the simple complicated. To God, it is not complicated.
It is only complicated to us because we do not want to obey God, but
would rather decide ourselves what we THINK is good/right. It seems
there are some who believe it a bad thing to actually speak and believe
what God has said on this matter.
Comment/question
To
answer your question, Sin is Sin. God's Word teaches that ALL sex
outside of marriage is sin.
Response
Actually scripture teaches that sex with anyone God has not joined one
to, is sin. Jesus says that if a divorced person marries another (so in
your thinking they are married having lawful sex, correct?)both are
sinning----they are committing adultery---so within an UNLAWFUL
marriage, according to Jesus, sin IS occuring. What man calls a "lawful"
marriage is not what defines a TRUE marriage in the sight of God. The
only TRUE marriage is the ONE which HE joined together.
Comment/question
And
repentance? Say someone divorces a spouse for unbiblical grounds, and
marries someone else. That is adultery, but if the person confess that
as sin, and doesn't repeat the same thing with the new marriage then
that is repentance. They keep the current spouse and remain sexually
faithful to that one.
Response
Does
confession of sin nullify the union that God joined together, Searcher?
If the person is guilty of adultery, that means they are with someone
who is not their spouse in God's eyes. If the forsaken spouse is
"standing" for the restoration of their marriage, what do you tell them
biblically to prove that their marriage has been dissolved by God and He
now recognizes and joins the second union He has called "adultery"?
Let me give an example: If I steal a car and then later acknowledge my
sin (confess it), my confession does not then make the car mine----it
still belongs to another.
The same holds true concerning the spouse who is taken by another. If
they then confess their sin of committing adultery with someone's
spouse, that doesn't then make them THEIR spouse in the eyes of God. GOD
calls that relationship adultery----BECAUSE that person does not belong
to them, they belong to another-----the ONE God joined them to, for
life.
Comment/question
That
analogy is ridiculous.
There are certain sins within a marriage which are covenant breaking. If
God so chooses, He can separate the two which have become one, setting
the offended party free, meaning they are no longer married. Marriage is
broken by death, adultery, abandonment/abuse. The marriage no longer
exists. The two are not bound together after covenant breaking sins have
been committed.
So, to answer your question, no confession does not nullify a union.
Covenant breaking sin does.
Response
No, it
is not a ridiculous analogy. First you said, that if one CONFESSES the
sin of adultery (being with someone who is NOT their spouse), THEN the
marriage is "good" in the sight of the Lord. I say, confession does not
then give one a right to keep what does not belong to them----whether it
be a car or a spouse.
You then said, it was the "breaking" of the covenant that dissolved the
ONE FLESH God joined together. Are you sure about that? Jesus said that
AFTER a divorce (by the guilty party), the person was guilty of adultery
when they married again. Why? Because the covenant is NOT dissolved in
the sight of God. Jesus then goes on to state that the person who
marries the INNOCENT one commits adultery. Why? Because the INNOCENT one
is not freed from the union God joined together----EVEN though their
spouse is now in adultery(remarriage).
The truth Jesus laid out is this: even though the husband puts away his
wife, he does not belong to the new "wife". He still belongs to his
first wife---and she belongs to him.
Many seem to be teaching that it is a matter of "what one wants" as to
what is truth scripturally. Personally, I have a hard time with that one
as it does not measure up to what Jesus or Paul taught on the nature of
marriages that are joined by God. Some teach, if it is a marriage I
"want", then it is binding. If it is a marriage I don't "want", then I
am FREE to be with another. Unfortunately we do not get to dictate the
terms of marriage---God does and what He calls adultery remains adultery
as long as one remains in said relationship. There is absolutely NO
scripture which says otherwise.
Comment/question
Perhaps I am out of line here, and if so, please forgive me
and remove this post. I am not sure what you are allowed to say and what
is not allowed. I wonder why you (the board moderators) allow someone to
prevent a point of view that is ABSOLUTELY non Biblical and quite
frankly, rather evil. Someone repeatedly says straight out that you can
only enter the kingdom of God if you are good enough (in this case, not
divorced). This is not what a Christian board should be allowing over
and over. It could confuse non Christians who might stumble across this,
although I cant imagine them reading through the thousands of posts.
Again, I am probably out of line, I just hate to see the gospel
presented as a works based salvation when its all by the grace of Jesus
Christ. Thank you.
Response
The view that marriage IS permanent until the death of one
of the spouses is very biblical and it is the EXACT position the very
earliest church taught/wrote about(the 1st-3rd century church). For
those of us who believe the Bible clearly teaches the marriage bond
endures until death, the teaching that what Jesus called adultery is
AOK, is what is evil. It is teaching that God's Grace (which is given to
us to be free FROM the bondage of sin) is given to allow us to CONTINUE
in relationships the LORD has deemed sinful.
To be sure, although divorcing a covenant spouse (the one GOD joined one
to) is due to sin, one can be divorced and NOT be "in sin" if they
repent of their part in the divorce. However, repenting of a divorce
does not then free one to find another partner. Jesus said that those
who are divorced commit adultery if they marry again. Paul taught in
Romans 7:2-3 and I Corinthians 7:39 that DEATH frees the married to
marry again. If one is divorced from the one God joined them to, they
are to "remain unmarried OR be reconciled to that spouse" (I Corinthians
7:10-11).
Salvation is not a "works based" issue for those who believe in marriage
til death. What we see in scripture is that Paul and Jesus both taught
that adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God. Now, if Jesus says
to remarry AFTER a divorce is to enter into adultery, should that not
give us something to be concerned about if we or those we know/love are
"in" such situations?
Jesus tells us that those who confess His name but are found to be
workers of lawlessness (break His laws), will be cast away from Him,
though they did many works in His name (Matthew 7:21-23). Again, is that
not something we should concern ourselves with?
Comment/question
I find a certain amount of tunnel vision here. They
consider the "constant state of adultery" a deal breaker for salvation,
but it seems that they don't concern themselves with other constant
states of sin... perhaps gluttony. If someone dies while constantly
over-eatting does that mean they are in danger of loosing their
salvation? If someone has lived in a constant state of idolatry to
sports, and has a heart attack watching their third football game of the
day does that mean they are in danger of loosing their place in heaven?
I have many counter argument (stated in the long ago past) but one I
have is with this "living in a constant unrepentant state of adultery"
notion.
Response
If the Lord says one is joining after a divorce with
someone who is NOT their spouse(they are committing adultery), why does
it appear you believe doing such a thing IS acceptable? Why the
deflection to other sins? The Word of God is clear that practicing ANY
LAWLESSNESS is unacceptable for those who will enter into His kingdom.
Comment/question
the Grace of God that is able to cover a multitude of sins
when we genuinely ask for his
forgiveness of our trespasses.
Response
When we GENUINELY ask for forgiveness, do we then continue
in the relationship HE has stated is sin? Is this type of repentance
acceptable to the Lord?
Comment/question
God did NOT ever state that remaining in a second marriage
after repentance is sin.
Response
Do you find anywhere in the New Testament where the
relationship Jesus calls adultery (because one or both are ALREADY
joined to another) becomes a lawful marriage in the sight of God?
Comment/question
To arrive at this theological view, one must go far beyond
anything ever said in scripture and ignore some verses that clearly
contradict it.
Response
And you still have not provided one scripture that shows
what Jesus called adultery is now a lawful marriage. Until you are able
to do that, you can continue to say all you like that what we speak
cannot possibly be true (that the original partners are STILL bound to
each other even AFTER a divorce/remarriage), but you will not have any
"teeth" to what you say..........it will only be based on what you
"think", not what Jesus says...........and that is a very weak position
to be coming from.
Comment/question
The divorced people in Biblical times were not the
adulteress because the adulteress were senteced to die if the law was
taken by the letter and etc...well, Kings and Nobility were
untouchables, it seems, because if not David would be stoned too...
Response
Jesus told the adulteress to "go and sin no
more"............plainly spoken, that would mean that she is not to
return to adulterous practices. If one is in a relationship that is
adultery in the Lord's eyes, that would mean to stop committing adultery
with that person who is NOT your spouse(in the eyes of the Lord). It
matters not to the Lord that the civil law says so and so is one's
spouse...........If He did not join them, they are in sin.
Comment/question
You are correct that Jesus did not teach on abortion, but I
did not say that Jesus did not teach on divorce and remarriage, what I
said is that he did not go further in saying that second marriages must
be ended in order to receive salvation. It is also important that in his
subsequent discussion with the disciples, when they say "If this is the
case, it is better not to marry!" Jesus says that whoever is able to
accept this teaching should accept it.
Response
Whoever is able to accept this is: "whosoever shall LOSE
their life for my sake, shall find life". They are who Jesus was
speaking of. To obey Him is not an option for one who says they love
Jesus more than they love their life.
Comment/question
That is nothing but a works based salvation point of view.
If you are saying we must keep the law to be saved, then you had better
take me out and stone me for being divorced. that is also in the Law.
Are you under law or grace? Praise Him! Its by grace.
Response
Being divorced was never a "stoneable" offense in the Old
Testament. Committing adultery, however, was---for both parties
involved. When the Lord came and told the woman caught in adultery to
"go and sin no more", He was showing us that our sin does not bring us
"death" if we choose to "go and sin no more". In other words, it is the
Lord's Grace that offers us LIFE, instead of death. Many choose to not
"go and sin no more", but instead "go" and then say they have embraced
Grace---- and that Grace allows them to continue in what the Lord
Himself has called sin (woe to those who call good evil and evil good).
The Lord has called remarriage evil(the sin of adultery) while one has a
living spouse, yet many in the Western Church have called remarriage in
such cases, "good". Many truly do not understand what loving your
neighbor means or what the Lord means when He speaks against defrauding
one's brother/sister. Some of us do understand what that means in light
of the marriage bond and that is why we are encouraging others to get in
His Word and to KNOW the heart of the Lord on this matter.
Concerning professing believers continuing in what the Lord has called
sin, what we find in the scriptures is this: "if you live according to
the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds
of the body, you will live, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,
these are the sons of God." (Romans 8:13-14)
"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are adultery,
fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, jealousies, outbursts of
wrath, selfish ambitions,.......................I told you in time past,
that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of
God." Galatians 5:19-21
It is not a "works" salvation to walk in obedience to the Lord as He
reveals those areas of sin that need to be forsaken(those who love me,
obey me). Obedience through repentance is the EVIDENCE of a true
believer---of those who "die" so that they may LIVE eternally with Him.
It is a very difficult thing to prove to oneself who has not "died" to
self, that they are truly born from above..............this is why Paul
tells each professed believer to "test" oneself to SEE if we are in the
faith. Jesus makes it quite clear that MANY who think they are in the
faith, are not, but are instead transgressors of His laws.
Comment/question
............. your position is based on YOUR
interpretation of what YOU believe God said, and that is an
interpretation not shared by most who have studied these same passages.
Most Christians believe God said something very different than what
YOU proclaim that he said. We all notice the verses you quote and
the ones you ignore, and it is the entire counsel of scripture that most
base their interpretation of this issue on, not just the verses you are
willing to quote.
Please understand that most of us see a BIG difference between
God's word, and your interpretation of God's word; they are not one and
the same.
Response
(Name Deleted) you still haven't answered my question. Can
you provide one scripture in which Jesus sees the union He calls
adultery as a lawful marriage and the previous union HE joined together,
dissolved?
It is your belief that one can divorce and remarry based upon adultery
within the marriage. You also have stated that it is the CHOICE of the
offended party whether to leave the covenant of marriage or to forgive
and desire reconciliation. Can you explain to me your thoughts on this:
if the offended has chosen to remain faithful to THEIR vow to God,
irregardless of what their spouse does (sin), are they holding their
spouse in their sin by not releasing them and "moving on"? Since it is
your belief that somehow magically the sin of adultery ceases with a new
vow taken, how does that work when the other faithful spouse is praying
and asking the Lord for their spouse to come to a place of repentance?
In other words, if the power of a broken/unbroken covenant is in the
hands of the offended one(this is what you say basically), how is it
that you ALSO seem to teach that it the power is in the hands of the
guilty as well(because if they DO enter into another marriage, the new
vow dissolves the marriage God joined together)?
Comment/question
You lack because your mindset of teaching the whole counsel
of the world of God, it does lack because your own understanding and
mindset. You say to others do not do things in their on way and move
their own way and yourself do it. By your answers below it shows your
mindset and position. By our own set of provision "remain unmarried or
be reconciled...it goes against of what Scripture and Lord says.
Response
No, to remain unmarried or be reconciled IS the counsel of
God, (name deleted). To say that God approves of women and men swapping
marriage partners and intermingling their families is not biblical. To
"move on" while one has a living spouse, whether they are in sin or not,
not only speaks against the Word of God, but it goes against the very
heart of God.
Comment/question
Here is one main point of contention. We disagree on all
remarriages, while an ex lives, are in a state of continuous adultery.
Response
Let me clarify then: all remarriages after the divorces of
COVENANT partners. It is very common today for people who have never
married to marry a divorced person, so a divorce taking place in such a
union, is not the same as a divorce between two that GOD did join.
In such cases, the previously single person/now divorced IS free to
marry one never divorced from a covenant marriage. So you are
correct, not all remarriages while one has a living ex are adulterous.
Their first marriage may have been adulterous (because they married a
person divorced from their covenant spouse), but unless they again
married one divorced from their covenant spouse, they are NOW in a
lawful marriage in the sight of God.
Comment/question
All marriage is lawful; it’s in the
Bible….its what is brought into a marriage that was unlawful.
There is no such thing as an adulterous marriage;
Response
You are correct, in reality there is no adulterous
marriage, only an adulterous union. Since we never see Jesus' approval
on such unions, only His label of sin, we must conclude that even though
such "marry", God does not join them as ONE.
Comment/question
I want to know for those who do believe
remarriage is a sin, how you interpret Luke 16:18
"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits
adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery"
Do you believe it states that the act of the marrying after divorce is
adultery ( which is what I think it says), or do you believe it actually
says, the whole relationship is an on going adulterous affair as if he
said (not in the bible =he who is married to a woman who is divorced
commits adultery or is an adulterer). For those who believe that the the
state of a remarriage is just adultery, no better than someone who
sleeps around with other peoples spouses, please explain.
Response
I am one who believes the entire relationship is adultery.
I believe that because this is exactly what Paul said in Romans 7:2-3.
Only DEATH dissolves a marriage joined by God. The proof is that Paul
used an adulterous woman in his analogy of what frees one to be joined
to another. It was not adultery, it was not a divorce, it was not taking
new vows with another person----it was DEATH that frees a wife to be
joined to another. If she chose to do it anyways, she would be labeled
an adulteress............and there is no indication anywhere in
scripture where this new relationship is a marriage joined by God----He
calls it adultery! It can only be adultery because God still sees the
original covenant as still in force.
Comment/question
Nobody can marry someone who is their
spouse because they are not their spouse until after they have married
them, so really there is no possibility that marrying someone who is not
your spouse alone being the cause of sin, it cannot be!
Response
The problem you face is redefining adultery. I think all of
us will agree that adultery is: unlawful relations with someone who is
not your spouse.
Now if Jesus said the "act" of marriage is adultery.........how can one
be "married" in the eyes of God and having unlawful relations with
someone who is NOT your spouse? It is impossible. You still have not
shown 1 single scripture in which Jesus accepts the relationship HE has
labeled adultery............not one. You say it is a lawful marriage in
God's eyes, much of the Western Church says its a lawful marriage in
God's eyes, but what did Jesus say? It's adultery. As hard as you may
try, you cannot redefine adultery, none of us can.
Comment/question
I really do think the no remarriage
outside of the death of a spouse view may line up with scripture but it
seems so outrageous that it makes marriage about endurance and
forgiveness in cases where it may not work out. I will continue to study
and pray and I believe the lord will lead me to the truth.
Response
I too found this teaching/belief "outrageous" at first. It
didn't seem fair, but the thing is that when we work it all out
scripturally, there is no refuting the permanency of marriage until
death. My "flesh" did NOT want to embrace this belief, yet my Spirit
KNEW it was truth----hard to swallow truth.
I think the big stumbling block for many is that when they picture
"endurance" and forgiveness as such a hard thing towards another
person, they forget 2 things: One, that no matter what another
person does or does not do, we do what we do FOR JESUS..........it is
for HIM that we ENDURE to the end (and us, of course). What another does
or does not do can not dictate what WE are called to do as His
followers. Secondly, if they are truly saved, some forget that WE too
were once wretched sinners that deserved nothing, YET, Jesus extended
Grace towards US................yet while we were sinners. He desires
that we walk in that SAME love that He extended towards us. As (name
deleted) said, it is strange to me that some are willing to extend that
love and forgiveness to their children, neighbors, church members,
family...........yet many times they will not do so to the ONE God
joined them to.
Comment/question
Second, why must I "prove" to you that a
second marriage is valid, when you have not proven that it is not?
Response
That's classic avoidance. We do not have to prove anything
of the sort. Jesus has spoken. He says such relationships are
adultery.............you say they are not. The burden of proof lies in
your court.
Comment/question
Please lose the english dictionary. God
does not judge by english definitions. Find out what the Hebrew word
meant and how the Greek word was used in the Helenized Jewish diaspora.
Then you can make your point.
Response
Adultery: OT------"Strong's Number: 05003 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
@an a primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Na'aph TWOT - 1273
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
naw-af' Verb
Definition
to commit adultery
(Qal)
to commit adultery 1a
usually of man 1a
always with wife of another 1a
adultery (of women) (participle)
idolatrous worship (fig.)
(Piel)
to commit adultery 1b
of man 1b
adultery (of women) (participle)
idolatrous worship (fig.)
King James Word Usage - Total: 31
adultery 17, adulterer 8, adulteress 4, adulterous 1, women that break
wedlock 1
NT: The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 3429 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
moicavw from (3432)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Moichao 4:729,605
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
moy-khah'-o Verb
Definition
to have unlawful intercourse with another's wife, to commit
adultery with
King James Word Usage - Total: 6
commit adultery 6 Strong's Number: 3431 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
moiceuvw from (3432)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Moicheuo 4:729,605
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
moy-khyoo'-o Verb
Definition
to commit adultery
to be an adulterer
to commit adultery with, have unlawful intercourse with another's
wife
: of the wife to suffer adultery, be debauched
A Hebrew idiom, the word is used of those who at a woman's solicitation
are drawn away to idolatry, i.e. to the eating of things sacrificed to
idols
King James Word Usage - Total: 14
commit adultery 13, in adultery 1
So if we are to insert the Greek
Lexicon's definition of adultery into what Jesus said, it would go like
this: Whosoever marries her that has been put away from her husand............
has unlawful intercourse with another's wife.
We can plainly see that what most of the Early church father's taught is
what many of us too have seen in the scriptures: when one "marries" a
divorced person, they are not entering into a lawful marriage in the
sight of God, they are committing adultery with the spouse of another.
Many seem to think if there is "permission" from all parties involved
that the subsequent marriages are ok.........yet, we see absolutely no
evidence of this in scripture. It does not matter if "man" says his wife
is free to marry another(because he doesn't want her any more), God
says, it is adultery. It is no different than couples who have
"permission" from their spouses within the marriage to seek out other
"relationships". Permission does not nullify how God sees those other
UNLAWFUL relationships.
Comment/question
Divorced Christians Who Married Again Are
NOT In Adultery!
A christian who needs a divorce and considers remarriage will not be in
adultery! Divorce from a bad or unrighteous marriage is a right from God
to His children. Christians who were divorced and remarried have been
wrongly labeled to be in adultery. It's just not true! They Say We Have
A Spouse Yet We're Unmarried
Response
No, (name deleted), WE do not say, Jesus Himself said,
"whosoever puts away his wife and marries another commits adultery and
whosoever marries a woman put away commits adultery". To say that it is
NOT true, is to deny Jesus' own words on the issue. He clearly said that
a "divorce" does not separate what He has joined together.........that
is why it is adultery AFTER a divorce has taken place, if one should
marry another----because they are not free to marry.
Comment/question
We have been incorrectly taught and
blindly believe that once a person is divorced, they somehow still have
a spouse. They cannot get married again. This lie is designed to keep
people in bondage their entire lives.
Response
You are attributing a "lie" to Jesus, (name deleted),
because He is the one who says a divorced person is NOT free to find
another spouse---unless their original spouse has passed away. I'm sorry
you think walking in obedience to the Lord is "bondage". I do not see it
that way.
Comment/question
If you were divorced or your spouse was
deceased, would you still have a mate? Of course not!
Response
The Word of God says that yes, I would still have a husband
if I were divorced from him. The Word of God also says that if my
husband dies, I no longer have a husband.........I am free to find
another should I desire that option.
Comment/question
We have been told that a person cannot
get married once they have been divorced because their spouse is alive,
even though after the divorce they don’t have a spouse; but once that
spouse dies, they can then get married.
Response
The Word of God teaches us that one cannot marry again
after a divorce because in the eyes of God such a one DOES have a
husband/wife, otherwise it would not be adultery to marry again.
Comment/question
Romans 7, This isolated Scripture was
used as an illustration by the Apostle Paul to give an example of when a
person dies; they are no longer under the law. Paul was NOT teaching
about divorce.
Response
Many try to say that Romans 7:2-3 isn't talking about
marriage practices----it's only a "general" analogy. The interesting
thing I have found is that some commentaries do not even address this
passage, they skip right on past it. Why? Because they don't know what
to do with it in light of modern day divorce/remarriage practices. They
can't explain why Paul uses the example of an adulterous
wife............why not use a wife in "good standing" in the marriage
when speaking of the bond which endures until death?
See Romans 7 - Paul was talking about the Law not Marriage
Comment/question
How then can we accept that we have a
spouse when we’re not married? When a person is divorced, they don’t
have a husband or wife. This means they are not “bound” to someone.
Response
(name deleted), you can say that over and over again,
trying to convince yourself, but you cannot change the words of Jesus
which refute what you have said. He says a divorce does not dissolve a
marriage. It matters not what a divorce decree states to the contrary.
God's judgments trump man's judgments----every time. If God says
something is sin, it doesn't matter if man says it is "lawful".
Many of us who post here truly want to see the BEST, God's BEST, for
those who profess His name. We understand that when we transgress the
Lord's commands, there is a price to pay. It is a much better thing to
KNOW one is truly following the Lord and have confidence than it is to
wonder if one is in sin. I know this dialogue (on the entire thread)
will not change some minds, they will do what they will do irregardless
of what God's Word says to the contrary. However, there are some who DO
desire to know the Lord's Will for their life and do not look at the
Lord's commands as "bondage", but understand that following Him
obediently actually gives great freedom.
Comment/question
This Scripture is for the person who is
MARRIED and wants to marry someone else while they are still married to
another. You can’t be married to two people at the same time. If you’re
divorced, you CAN get married again BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE A HUSBAND OR
WIFE. Simply, you’re single or unmarried, if divorced.
from divorcehope.com
Response
The above is a perfect example of how the person running
divorcehope twists the Word of God to allow for what Jesus called
adultery to occur. I truly fear for him as he is leading many into sin
and will have to answer for that.
My Testimony
Listen To The Radio Broadcast
A Preacher's Repentance From Adulterous Remarriage.
The Testimony of J.M Humphrey
Judy's Repentance From Remarriage Adultery
Tony Sexton's Repentance From Remarriage Adultery
Dave's Repentance From Remarriage Adultery
The End of 17 Year's of Legalized Adultery
Married
Once, Divorced Twice
By: John Lemme
Repentance
From Remarriage Adultery
By: Larry Yeatts
JW's Repentance From Remarriage Adultery
A Preacher's Journey from Ignorant Rebellion to Repentance
More Testimonies of Repentance From Adulterous Remarriage & Messages of Encouragement
Frequently Asked Questions, Comment, Arguments About Marriage Divorce & Remarriage
Sermons & Radio Broadcasts on marriage, divorce, remarriage & more.
Orville Swindoll
A
Fellowship, Support & Discussion Forum
Theological Foundations
has an online fellowship and discussion forum for those who
are standing for their covenant marriages and for those who
have repented of adulterous remarriages.
The Hosea Project is an international, nondenominational
effort by volunteers to contact each Pastor and leader of
the Christian Church worldwide with this message of
repentance and restoration.
Listen to the Hosea Project message
Looking for a church that teaches the permanency of marriage?
I do NOT in any way endorse the entirety of a number of these sites below, nonetheless, they may contain useful information and/or resources.
Critique of David Instone-Brewer on Divorce
By Dr. Leslie McFall
Former lecturer in Hebrew and Old Testament. Now a full-time researcher in
Biblical Studies.
Former Research Fellow at Tyndale House Library (Cambridge, England).
**More MDR links at