"Look at the legalized adultery we call divorce.
Men marry one wife after another and are still admitted into good
society; and women do likewise. There are thousands of supposedly
respectable men in American living with other men's wives, and thousands
of supposedly respectable women living with other women's husbands."
- R. A. Torrey From R.A. Torrey's book How to Pray, pages 94-95
R.A. Torrey (1856-1928) was a very well-known Christian writer,
evangelist, pastor, graduate of Yale University, and was also the
superintendent of Moody Bible Institute for 19 years.
TRINITY BARS THE
DIVORCED.; No Remarriage in the Church or Any of the Chapels.
The clergy of Trinity Church announced yesterday that under no
circumstances will divorced persons be married by any of the clergy of
that Episcopal parish, nor will such marriages be permitted either in
the church at Wall Street and Broadway or in any one of the parish's
eight chapels. The announcement was as follows:
View full article New York Times
December 7, 1904, Wednesday
Comment/question
But If Thou Marry Thou Hast not sinned 1 Co 7:27-28
Response
Yes, I know many use those two passages to say they don't have to
"remain unmarried or be reconciled". In I Corinthians 7:15 Paul never gives
allowance for remarriage, nor does he say the "bond" is dissolved. He
merely states that in order to walk in peace they are released to let
the spouse go if it is their desire---not to fight them---they are not
in bondage. The word Greek word used for "bondage" is not the same word
Paul use in
Comment/question
I Cor. 7:27-28 is ONLY speaking to those who ARE free to remarry/marry
(virgins, men who have never been married and widowers). Anyone who
departs (divorces) is NOT free by Paul's own words. They are to remain
unmarried or be reconciled. If they marry again while their spouse is
alive, they DO sin.
I know that God does do things quite contrary to human expectations time
and time again. And I know that in His word (1 Corinthians 7:27-28)
those that are legitimately divorced are free to remarry. AND I know
that those who are repentant and seek God are forgiven completely. And I
know that God does not remember the forgiven sins. Only men do that.
Response
Concerning I Cor. 7:27-28..........verse 25 says: Now concerning the
VIRGINS.........
Paul has already discussed those who are married in the previous verses
and now is dealing with a different group of people-----unmarried(never
been married) men and women. Paul is not talking to men who have
divorced their wives because he just got done telling men in verse 12
NOT to divorce their wives.
Comment/question
The divorce certificate does dissolve the marriage contract that is why
Paul stated that if you have been loosed from a wife, if you marry - you
do not sin.
Response
Though I don't really put much stock in "commentators", I do find it
interesting that concerning that passage (I Cor. 7:27-28), almost ALL
believe this is speaking about SINGLE----never married, or widowed (not
divorced) men. Taking that viewpoint is consistent with the bulk of
scripture on the divorce/remarriage issue. If Paul would have been
addressing divorced men, he would have contradicted his teaching right
before that one in which he states that a man is NOT to divorce his
wife............and it would also contradict Jesus' teachings that to
marry one put away (divorced) would be committing adultery. So, it WOULD
be a sin to marry in such instances.
Comment/question
27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released
from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But if you marry, you have not
sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned.
Response
Not speaking to divorced people here, though I know many would like to
believe that. If Paul were, he just contradicted himself and also
contradicted Jesus who said that to marry after a divorce WAS sin----the
sin of adultery.
Comment/question
25 Now concerning the betrothed, I have no command from the Lord, but I
give my judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. 26 I
think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to
remain as he is. 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are
you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you
have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned.
Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you
that.
Response
EXCELLENT translation, (name deleted). For that clears up COMPLETELY
what the meaning is there. BETROTHED...............BETROTHED
NOT divorced, as many would like Paul to have meant.
Comment/question
You will notice that in Corinthians, Paul speaks both to the bound and
then to the betrothed. If he were only speaking to the betrothed – it
would not be necessary to have that same phrase repeated.
Response
The Betrothed WERE bound..............by Word and many times legal
agreement. He was speaking both to the virgins AND they men they were
betrothed to.
Comment/question
Interesting...nobody addresses the verses
from I Cor. 7:27 and 28
If you are married, do not seek to be loosed, if you are loosed, do not
seek a wife, if you do marry it is not a sin....
all you want to do is address the other verses...if what you all are
saying...why are these verses there...do not tell me he was addressing
virgins only...the scripture clearly is not stating that at all...
seems you only address what you want to address...
Response
Have you read all the
varying translations on I Cor. 7:25-27? I would encourage you to do so.
Here are some of those translations:
NIV
27Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look
for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin
marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles
in this life, and I want to spare you this.
NASB
27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released
from a wife? Do not seek a wife.
28But if you marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she
has not sinned. Yet such will have trouble in this life, and I am trying
to spare you.
MSG
27Are you married? Stay married. Are you unmarried? Don't get married.
28But there's certainly no sin in getting married, whether you're a
virgin or not. All I am saying is that when you marry, you take on
additional stress in an already stressful time, and I want to spare you
if possible
AMP
27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a
wife? Do not seek a wife.
28But if you do marry, you do not sin [in doing so], and if a virgin
marries, she does not sin [in doing so]. Yet those who marry will have
physical and earthly troubles, and I would like to spare you that.
NLT
27If you have a wife, do not end the marriage. If you do not have a
wife, do not get married. 28But if you do get married, it is not a sin.
And if a young woman gets married, it is not a sin. However, I am trying
to spare you the extra problems that come with marriage.
KJV
27Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed
from a wife? seek not a wife.
28But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry,
she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh:
but I spare you.
ESV
27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a
wife? Do not seek a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned,
and if a betrothed woman[a] marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who
marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.
CEV
27If you are married, stay married. If you are not married, don't try to
get married. 28It isn't wrong to marry, even if you have never been
married before. But those who marry will have a lot of trouble, and I
want to protect you from that.
NKJV
27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from
a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28But even if you do marry, you have not
sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such
will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.
ASV
27 Art thou bound unto a wife? Seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed
from a wife? Seek not a wife.
28 But shouldest thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin
marry, she hath not sinned. Yet such shall have tribulation in the
flesh: and I would spare you.
WE
27If you have married a wife, do not try to be free from her. If you
have no wife, do not look for one.
28But, if you marry, it is not wrong. And if a woman marries, it is not
wrong. People who marry will have trouble in this life. And I want to
keep you out of it.
YLT
27Hast thou been bound to a wife? seek not to be loosed; hast thou been
loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
28But and if thou mayest marry, thou didst not sin; and if the virgin
may marry, she did not sin; and such shall have tribulation in the
flesh: and I spare you.
Darby
27Art thou bound to a wife? seek not to be loosed; art thou free from a
wife? do not seek a wife.
28But if thou shouldest also marry, thou hast not sinned; and if the
virgin marry, they have not sinned: but such shall have tribulation in
the flesh; but I spare you.
Wycliff
27 Thou art bound to a wife, do not thou seek unbinding; thou art
unbound from a wife, do not thou seek a wife.
28 But if thou hast taken a wife, thou hast not sinned; and if a maiden
is wedded, she sinned not; nevertheless such shall have tribulation of
flesh. But I spare you.
I do not see one translation that speaks of the "unmarried" as a
divorced man. Since we know that Paul just got done teaching that a man
must not divorce his wife, we know that such a man WOULD sin if he
married again, so that cannot be what Paul is speaking about. He is
either dealing with single men (never married) or widowed men.
Comment/question
Yes, the teaching is not to
divorce...but no where does it say NOT to remarry...
Here it says, it is not a sin to marry...
Response
Who would it not be a sin to
marry? The widower and the single person who is never married. We know
this for sure, don't we?
However, you say scripture does not speak about remarriage being sinful
after a divorce? How can you say such a thing? Jesus most definitely
taught to marry another person after a divorcing the ONE He joined you
to, is committing adultery.
Paul taught that a person who marries another while their spouse lives,
commits adultery (Rom. 7:2-3). He again reaffirmed the law of marriage
in I Cor. 7:39---saying that DEATH severed the bond freeing the one left
to marry again---without sin.
Comment/question
I have not
ignored anything you have shown me in scripture. I have gone and read. I
have gone and listened to anyone thaty ou have mentioned and anyone else
has mentioned to me here at FL forums.
All the scripture translations that were put up a few post back...all
say the same thing...how do you square it with what you are saying...
"If you are married, do not seek a divorce, if you are divorced,
do not seek a wife, yet if you marry it is not a sin."
Response
Wow, now it is very clear to me that you want to see what you want to see. NONE of the translations use the word "divorced", but you do. Why?
Comment/question
And you would
only want me to see what you would want me to see????
Do you live by the word on a daily basis? Are you living a sinless life?
ARe you on your knees immediately after committing a sin? If not, and
you die before you confess, will you inherit the kingdom?
Will God allow sin into heaven...if we die having committed sins and
have not confessed them to him...is it to late to confess when we are in
front of him...or do we have to confess that here?
Or is it grace that saves us...and if we sin and die with that sin...has
it been covered????
Splitting hairs again???
Response
As for your
use of "divorce" in re-quoting scripture, yes, I do take issue with that
because that word is not used in any translation I have ever seen, so
you using it says much as far as your present mindset and unwillingness
to really look into that passage and compare it to the many that
discount your rendering of it. But, each of us can do with scripture as
we please.........for now.
Will God allow sin into heaven? No. Will He allow those who have
committed sins into heaven? Yes-----because that is the price Jesus paid
for those who are His. The question then remains----who are His? Do His
continue in their sins once saved and once a sin has been revealed as
such? It appears that Jesus Himself says, "no"...........Matthew
7:21-23----those who continue to break His laws/work iniquity, they will
be told to "depart from me".
Some of us care enough to exhort those considering departing from Jesus'
commands to reconsider. Blessings........
Comment/question
The reasons
allowed for divorce are for unfaithfulness, abuse, and abandonment. If
you've been divorced due to these issues you are released.
if you are married do not seek to be loosed, if you are loosed do not
seek a wife, if you marry you do not sin.
Response
If a woman
does depart, she is to remain unmarried or reconciled to her husband. I
Corinthians 7:10-11.
There is NO provision to remarry in such cases. Such remarriages would
be adultery in the Lord's sight. Paul makes it very clear that this is a
command from the Lord. In light of this very CLEARLY worded command, I
think it nullifies the belief that after a divorce from one the Lord
joined them to, they are free. Paul says (from the Lord), they are NOT
free.
Comment/question
1Co 7:26 I think that in view of the present distress it is good
for a person to remain as he is.
1Co 7:27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you
free from a wife? Do not seek a wife.
1Co 7:28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a
betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will
have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.
Please note the wording in bold. Right together. If one is free
(divorced) from a wife and marries he has not sinned. I would call that
a pretty big "hint. "
Response
If Paul would have meant "divorced", then he would be
contradicting himself and he would be contradicting Jesus' teachings
that state adultery occurs AFTER a divorce takes place should one marry
again. So it WOULD be sin to marry. Paul is speaking about UNMARRIED men
(those who have never been married). He has already discussed those who
are separated in the earlier passages. He has now moved on to those men
and women who have NEVER been married (or possibly widowers). Have you
ever done a thorough study on all the different translations of this
passage. It is quite interesting........and it is interesting to note
that NONE I have found reference the "loosed" as a divorced man---to the
contrary.
See for yourself:
NIV
27Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look
for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin
marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles
in this life, and I want to spare you this.
NASB
27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released
from a wife? Do not seek a wife.
28But if you marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she
has not sinned. Yet such will have trouble in this life, and I am trying
to spare you.
MSG
27Are you married? Stay married. Are you unmarried? Don't get married.
28But there's certainly no sin in getting married, whether you're a
virgin or not. All I am saying is that when you marry, you take on
additional stress in an already stressful time, and I want to spare you
if possible
AMP
27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a
wife? Do not seek a wife.
28But if you do marry, you do not sin [in doing so], and if a virgin
marries, she does not sin [in doing so]. Yet those who marry will have
physical and earthly troubles, and I would like to spare you that.
NLT
27If you have a wife, do not end the marriage. If you do not have a
wife, do not get married. 28But if you do get married, it is not a sin.
And if a young woman gets married, it is not a sin. However, I am trying
to spare you the extra problems that come with marriage.
KJV
27Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed
from a wife? seek not a wife.
28But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry,
she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh:
but I spare you.
ESV
27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a
wife? Do not seek a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned,
and if a betrothed woman[a] marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who
marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.
CEV
27If you are married, stay married. If you are not married, don't try to
get married. 28It isn't wrong to marry, even if you have never been
married before. But those who marry will have a lot of trouble, and I
want to protect you from that.
NKJV
27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from
a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28But even if you do marry, you have not
sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such
will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.
ASV
27 Art thou bound unto a wife? Seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed
from a wife? Seek not a wife.
28 But shouldest thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin
marry, she hath not sinned. Yet such shall have tribulation in the
flesh: and I would spare you.
WE
27If you have married a wife, do not try to be free from her. If you
have no wife, do not look for one.
28But, if you marry, it is not wrong. And if a woman marries, it is not
wrong. People who marry will have trouble in this life. And I want to
keep you out of it.
YLT
27Hast thou been bound to a wife? seek not to be loosed; hast thou been
loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
28But and if thou mayest marry, thou didst not sin; and if the virgin
may marry, she did not sin; and such shall have tribulation in the
flesh: and I spare you.
Darby
27Art thou bound to a wife? seek not to be loosed; art thou free from a
wife? do not seek a wife.
28But if thou shouldest also marry, thou hast not sinned; and if the
virgin marry, they have not sinned: but such shall have tribulation in
the flesh; but I spare you.
Wycliff
27 Thou art bound to a wife, do not thou seek unbinding; thou art
unbound from a wife, do not thou seek a wife.
28 But if thou hast taken a wife, thou hast not sinned; and if a maiden
is wedded, she sinned not; nevertheless such shall have tribulation of
flesh. But I spare you.
Comment/question
You cannot be "released" if you are not bound previously.
As to God saying different things to different people, every person is
different and every relationship is unique. ONLY GOD can say which
passage applies in any given situation. Even though they may look very
similar to us, God sees more than we can.
If you try to tie God down to your intrepretation, you reduce His
soverignty, His personhood, His free will.
Response
It is not "tying God down and reducing His sovereignty". God says
that to marry one divorced is adultery--To HIM--- and Paul teaches that
only death dissolves what HE joins together (not
divorce(Rom. 7:2-3)-----and remember, he even gives the scenerio of an
adulterous wife). Jesus teaches that when He joins a couple in marriage,
they are NO LONGER two, but one. So, if one is hoping to justify
remarriage, while they have a living spouse, based upon I Cor. 7:27,
they will have a hard time showing how that is really what Paul was
teaching there based upon Jesus' teachings to the contrary as well as
Paul's own words on the issue.
Did you look at all the translations I posted? You say that one has to
be "bound" previously in order to be released. NONE of them say the
"released" is in regards to the those who divorced their covenant
spouse. It doesn't speak to the divorced at all. All of the translations
either say "are you UNMARRIED...............if you do not have a
wife.............are you loosed from a wife................" None of
them say, are you "divorced" from a wife.
Comment/question
Paul uses the word "loosed" Greek for G3089 ,"from" a wife... meaning the wife was still living, and to be loosed in the first place the divorce in order to be loosed has to be proven as sexual immorality, and not for any reason.
Response
"loosed" means nothing of the sort, (name deleted). That is YOUR insertion of what you believe it means based upon your interpretation which allows people with living spouses to be joined with others. I do not read I Corinthians 7:27 that way and though I don't care about "popular" opinion, most all of the commentaries I've read on that passage believe Paul is speaking about NEVER been married men or widowers, NOT the divorced as you assume.
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Critique
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