"Look at the legalized adultery we call divorce.
Men marry one wife after another and are still admitted into good
society; and women do likewise. There are thousands of supposedly
respectable men in American living with other men's wives, and thousands
of supposedly respectable women living with other women's husbands."
- R. A. Torrey From R.A. Torrey's book How to Pray, pages 94-95
R.A. Torrey (1856-1928) was a very well-known Christian writer,
evangelist, pastor, graduate of Yale University, and was also the
superintendent of Moody Bible Institute for 19 years.
TRINITY BARS THE
DIVORCED.; No Remarriage in the Church or Any of the Chapels.
The clergy of Trinity Church announced yesterday that under no
circumstances will divorced persons be married by any of the clergy of
that Episcopal parish, nor will such marriages be permitted either in
the church at Wall Street and Broadway or in any one of the parish's
eight chapels. The announcement was as follows:
View full article New York Times
December 7, 1904, Wednesday
Comment/question
It amazes me that a far bigger crime is placed
on those who are married a second time than those in the church who
committed adultery (which is all too quickly covered up)
Response
I don't believe any of us would ever think it
ok to commit adultery OR to cover it up. The hypocrisy I see is that
some believe extramarital adultery is in one camp----those type should
be dealt with, but those who commit adultery through remarriage after a
divorce---should be elevated to positions of leadership within a church
if it "appears" they are faithful to "this" wife. That is a very
confusing stance to me.......
This very stance is why the homosexual "Christians" are calling us
HYPOCRITES! They see very clearly that remarriage is called adultery by
Jesus, yet we say it is not adultery........yet we will come down pretty
hard on other sexual sins 'within the camp'. Personally, I believe it
has become such because we KNOW people and LOVE people who are divorced
and remarried and we think "surely those scriptures CAN'T mean what they
say"....surely there has to be some grace extended towards THAT sin.
Where is our measurement of sin coming from---within our own reasonings,
or according to the Lord's judgments?
Believe me, I would be very happy if you can show that the marriages
which take place after a divorce, which are named by Jesus and Paul as
adulterous unions, somehow come to be honored by God---the previous
marriage dissolved. That's what I used to believe, but I can no longer
hold to such a view in light of the Words of Jesus and Paul on the
matter. I believe it was the Lord Himself who showed me the inequity of
judgment within the Church on the issue of sexual sin/illicit
relationships. I can see nothing but hypocrisy now----especially when I
see big named ministries fighting so hard against homosexuality, yet
remaining deafeningly quiet on the issue of church sanctioned adultery.
What Ron said about those on the "outside" is an important facet and
consideration not only in leadership issues, but in our dealings with
sin overall within our ranks. The "world" is watching us......watching
to see if what we speak lines up with what we do.
Comment/question
Is it ok to get married when one is divorced?
I
have mixed feelings about this. I know you're going to disagree but I
think it is unreasonable to ask someone to spend the rest of their life
alone just because (for example) their spouse did not live up to their
vows in some major way (causing divorce) or chose to initiate the
divorce.
Response
I am grieved that anyone who professes to follow Jesus would say such a
thing. Jesus has spoken on the matter and He HAS said that to enter into
a marriage after divorce is to commit adultery. Did He understand human
loneliness? Of course He did, yet He also led Paul to reaffirm His
teachings on the matter: If a woman does depart, she is to remain
UNMARRIED OR be reconciled to her husband and a husband is NOT to put
his wife away (I Corinthians 7:10-11)? Why must we honor this in spite of
loneliness---BECAUSE we say we love the Lord and because when we marry
our first marriage partner, we are joined for life. Only death will free
one to marry again (
Comment/question
As a side note - People like to think there is "spouse stealing" going
on here. Let me clear that up quickly. You throw out what you consider
garbage and it winds up in another person's house because it wasn't
garbage but actually a find piece of furniture, don't run around now
accusing someone of stealing from you. You threw it away!!!
Anything you abuse, you will lose!!!!
Response
The problem here #1 is that some spouses did NOT throw away the other
spouse, but another party entered the scene and gave cause for a
marriage not to be worked on. Problem #2---you have completely left God
out of the equation. HE joins the two as One.........only HE can
separate that and He chooses to do so at death.
Just
because 1 or even 2 are in agreement to the disposition of the marriage
does not mean that God is ok with it. That is the problem you have in
all your reasonings. You think man holds sway over God. If, one truly
belongs to Jesus, their life is no longer their own. Their "happiness"
is not a driving force----unless they have reclaimed their life back
from the Lord. If one belongs to the Lord, it is HIS will one desires to
do, not their own. If one belongs to the Lord, it is their DESIRE to
love the brethren, not to defraud the brethren by taking each other's
spouses......
IF
one belongs to the Lord, their ultimate desire, though they may stumble
at times, is ultimately to be like Jesus and do the Will of the Father
in Heaven...............and He is a covenant keeper.
One
of the signs of the last days nature of man is that they are "covenant
breakers"........they have a form of godliness, yet lack the power
thereof. (II Tim. 3-4). What I see in the forsaking of marriages in the
Christian community is a lack of faith----there is NO power, just
flesh----"I'm not happy, and I want what I want"........ Faith, true
saving faith, walks out I Cor. 13 though it is uncomfortable to the
flesh. They BELIEVE the impossible..............They TRUST the Lord with
all their hearts.........They are LONG suffering, knowing that if the do
not "grow weary in well doing", there WILL be a reward.
Covenant breaking ultimately is because people do not want to
suffer........they flee it and then because they flee it, the Lord is
not able to conform them in His image.......they do not want to die to
self for the good of the kingdom and others, they want to live----for
themselves. They do not want to be partakers in the sufferings of
Christ........
Some
may say that is judgmental. Maybe so, but I believe that is the
underlying issue in all "professing" Christian divorces. They divorce
because their is a lack of faith and trust in the Lord........They do
what they KNOW is displeasing to the Lord due to circumstances and then
try to make excuses for their sin against the Lord and others.
Comment/question
I am so very glad that God is more merciful and forgiving than people. I
am truly thankful that I will be judged by Him and not some Pharisaical
Christians.
Response
The Lord will judge using the same thing we are called to judge by
WITHIN the church---His Word. It's not being "pharisaical" to rely upon
the Lord's Word for
direction/correction/encouragement/chastisement----it is what we should
live by as followers of Jesus Christ----otherwise we are no different
than the heathen who believe if their "good" works outweigh their "bad"
works they will make it to heaven, cause God is a nice and fair God.
Yet,
what does the Word of God say? In Mt. 7:21-23 Jesus says that not
everyone who says "Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he
that doeth the will of the Father which is in heaven. MANY in that day
shall say, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy
name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from me, ye
that work INIQUITY.
Jesus
also says in Jn. 14:23: If a man loves me, he WILL keep my words; and my
Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with
him. He that loveth me NOT, keepeth NOT my sayings; and the word which
ye hear is NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHER'S which sent me.
If
Jesus says that to divorce and marry another while one has a living
spouse is adultery (having unlawful relations with one who is NOT your
spouse)........why do we think that Jesus WILL bless this? Are His words
not from the Father Himself passed down to those who say they love the
Lord?
Comment/question
I'm sorry, but I can't help but view some of the replies from the
no-remarriage people as usually totally lacking compassion. I know,
they'd say that it has to do with the letter of the law, so to speak.
But Jesus was not so far into the law that He missed the spirit of the
law and also people along the way. I maintain my view that if a couple
divorces there is no reason why they must be further punished by having
to live alone or else reconcile (especially when there has been abuse).
There is no love in that at all. When I look at the rest of the
Scriptures (and yes I've read them, twice so far) I do not see a God who
would tell me that I must suffer for my spouse's sin for the rest of my
life.
Response
Each of us has the freedom to take the Word of God and apply it to the
lives we say are IN CHRIST, or we have the freedom to explain away
whatever is not pleasant for us. Many have explained away the Words of
the Lord----that is why we see the growing acceptance of homosexuality
in the church as well as rampant divorce/remarriage. Most people,
scripture teaches, will follow the broad road of destruction. If we love
our brethren, we should encourage each other to walk the narrow path.
Comment/question
I do think a lot of people don't see the spirit behind a lot of what has
been said in scripture. I mean to say that people that re-marry and are
happy will never enter the gates of heaven is a little black and white
to me.
Separation I guess is okay, but BOY if you divorce and possiblity go on
with your life down the road are you in BIG trouble! Personally, I think
the spirit of what is being said is lost in alot of people's
translations. I am sure it will stay that way also for them.
I
also have a really hard time with the idea of you have one chance at
love as a couple, and then forever more it will forbidden fruit for you.
Then you have those that have one person struggling to keep it alive,
and is left behind...always be alone forever because of this forbidden
fruit of "only once"!
Response
Don’t you think the Lord knew ALL the differing scenarios of marriage
and all the sins involved in marital relationships, yet He said what He
said ("remain unmarried or be reconciled" and "whosoever divorces and
marries another commits adultery).
Yes,
God is love..........His is AGAPE love......that is the love those in
Christ are expected to extend to others-----especially those whom the
Lord joined us with. When we walk in God's love, Agape love, we WILL
remain committed no matter what sin comes against us----because we
desire and place that person's good above our own. We must also remember
that God has called us to obedience and the "dying to self". The
scripture "it is no longer I that live, but Christ who lives within me"
is what EVERY Christian should aspire to in their walk with the Lord.
When we live for Christ, we "die to self" we do not justify what we
"should have"..........we acknowledge our circumstances that we DO have
and live to the Glory of Christ.
Comment/question
"we should encourage each other to walk the narrow path."
So my
fellow Christans should encourage me to either a.) remain in an
emotionally abusive marriage or b.) remain alone for the rest of my life
with no chance of remarriage or to have children? There is NO love in
that. I do not believe that I must be punished for the rest of my life
because of my husband's sin.
Response
We Christians should encourage each other to continue following Christ;
to not turn away from Him and His commands because they are too hard to
bear. When we follow Him, even down lonely, dark pathways, HE will
enable us to accomplish those hard things set before us........many
times He sends brothers and sisters to come alongside and encourage a
faltering saint to PERSEVERE.
Comment/question
God is not waiting at the door to point His finger in condemnation. It
seems that many here would take that position, however, which is sad.
Response
No, you are quite wrong. Many who believe in the permanency and sanctity
of the "one flesh" marriage joined by God do NOT believe that abuse is
AOK with God. What many of us have issue with is the mindset that if
someone "feels" abused or actually is, then they now have the freedom
not only to "depart" (I Cor. 7:10-11), now they feel they have the right
to be joined with another partner who may be "nicer", more "godly", etc.
Scripture is very clear that if a woman DOES depart, she is to remain
UNMARRIED or be reconciled to her husband. She is NOT free to marry
another and if she chooses to do so, she will then enter into an
adulterous relationship, since the LORD still views the "one flesh"
marriage as binding. We can call ourselves remarried "legally", but that
does not mean that God will recognize it as such. He is not bound to
agree with us.........we are however, bound to agree with Him, if we
truly do belong to Him.
Comment/question
You can all quote as many scriptures as you want to but the bottom line
is the decisions we make are between that person and God....
You
can all attack me with scripture if you like but I am going to do what I
feel God wants me to do after all I am the one who will face him for the
decisions I make not any of you....
There
are people out here who do understand....we can all quote scripture, but
until you are in another's place you really can't understand....I
learned that....when I use to say I know how you feel, I really didnt'
cause I had never been there.....and I am not attacking those who quote
the scripture....I think we all know what it says even those who arent'
saved....and if you are so unhappy how can you serve God....you can't
not to me anyway.....hope I did not offend anyone not my
intention......God bless you all.
Response
Yes, we ALL will do what is in our hearts to do whether it is in line
with the Word of God or not and yes, we each will stand before God for
those choices we make. Some of the choices we make that ARE in line with
God's Word/Will will be things that do NOT make us happy, yet what we
will have is TRUE PEACE with God.
Some
things we choose, on the other hand, will bring us "temporal" happiness,
but we will not have TRUE peace with God if we are walking in opposition
to His Word/Will. Jesus said that those who seek to save their
lives(live for themselves, not for Him) will LOSE their lives. He also
said that those who LOSE their lives (live for Him, not themselves) will
save their lives.
If we
are to have the mindset that only when we are "happy" can we serve God,
I would ask you this: How did/do those who are living under severe
persecution LIVE for God---being that they are surely not "happy"? The
truth of the matter is that those who have sacrificed their own
happiness/desires/wants in favor of following the Lord even into
dangerous/life threatening situations where there is no "happiness",
have done more for the
Lest
I be seen as a "martyr wanna be", that is not my mindset either. I don't
believe in self-flagellation (punishing/inflicting pain on oneself to
prove their worthiness before God), but what I do see in scripture is
that the God, the One True God, does not guarantee "happiness" in this
life, nor is it His intended purpose for those who follow Him. What He
desires is obedience and trust in whatever situation He has allowed into
our lives..........and yes, I believe God does allow first spouses that
are 'not good'.......but what He desires for those who name His name is
to see beyond their situation, to BELIEVE IN HIM and to TRUST in
HIM-----that with obedience, trust and faith, that the Lord CAN change a
marriage----in HIS TIME, not ours. Our good and reasonable service to
Him is to follow Him----NO MATTER WHAT WE SEE BEFORE US in the physical
realm.
Comment/question
I believe it's appalling that someone would tell a woman that God will
release her from an abusive marriage IF and ONLY IF her husband sleeps
with another woman. And it's even more appalling to tell her that God
sentences her to a life of condemnation, loneliness, and single
parenthood (if there were children from the first marriage) because of
the actions of her abusive husband. Actions that she had no control
over.
We
have to understand the heart of God before we can truly understand his
Word. The Pharisees' biggest problem was they did not understand the
heart of God. They knew the letter of the Law but they refused to listen
to Jesus when he tried to explain the reasons BEHIND the Law. Christians
today who quote scripture without attempting to understand the reason
behind it ARE being like the Pharisees. It's an ugly truth but it's
there. God himself knows I've been guilty of it, and he knows I still
feel the grief in my spirit like a knife when I remember the times I've
sat in judgment and condemnation over others when I whole-heartedly
believed I was rightly dividing his Word. Matthew 12:7 If you had known
what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not
have condemned the innocent.
Response
To apply the Word of God in our lives BECAUSE we understand His very
heart on the issue IS important. I agree. I do find it quite ironic that
the two sides of this issue think the other side does not understand
God's heart, therefore is walking in opposition to His Will. One or both
sides are wrong.
Those
who say the no remarriage camp is without "grace/judgmental, etc"
towards those who decide remarriage is ok--------can I ask if you feel
that those who decide to "move on" ARE filled with Grace, mercy, etc
toward the spouse who offended them? Does
There
are many today who are painting a truly false picture of our Saviour..........When
He came the first time it was to SAVE.............WHEN He comes again,
it will be to judge sin. We must remember that and that BECAUSE OF SIN,
many, many will perish----eternally (Eph. 5:1-10, Rev. 11:15-18). When
we preach the Gospel, we need to preach ALL of it----including God's
judgment of sin/rebellion/disobedience.
Comment/question
The position of opposition to remarriage is not pure. It supposes sin on
the innocent and questions the motives and hearts of those involved.
Response
Not at all. The opposition to remarriage while one has a living spouse
is due to scripture reaffirming this position. As to the "innocent",
there are many innocent who suffer by following God's Will for their
lives, rather than living for themselves. We are all called to FORGIVE
those who offend us and use us. We are called to PRAY for them and not
retaliate. Is having our hands bound (not being able to retaliate),
fair---in the minds of man? Yet this is exactly what followers of Jesus
are called to----even if we suffer in the temporal we are promised a
reward eternally.
Comment/question
The position of opposition to remarriage is not gentle. It is legalistic
and unwarranted binding.
Response
So is calling a person who names the name of Christ to break off a long
term relationship the Lord calls sin----whether it be pre-marital
relations, homosexual relations, or adulterous relations----especially
if children are involved. Some seem to draw the line at adultery, yet
that is not the line the Lord draws for those who profess to know Him
and follow Him..........He calls ALL who desire to follow Him to REPENT.
It is not "legalistic", it is what God commands and it is our
"reasonable service".
Comment/question
The position of opposition to remarriage is not reasonable. It goes
against every concept of repentance and forgiveness given in the
Scriptures.
Response
No, it does not go against scripture, it goes against man's reasonings
of "fairness" and judgment of another person's sins against them. Man is
quick to judge those who sin against him while many times not seeing his
own fault/sin against others. As I said, self-justification in the
Comment/question
"I desire mercy, not sacrifice"
Response
Malachi 2:13-17
13
"This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with
tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the
offering or accepts it with favor from your hand.
14
"Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness
between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt
treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.
How
does the priest in the above scripture "get right" with God? He is
already covering the altar with his tears, yet the Lord rejects him? The
Lord speaks of the 1st wife as the wife of the covenant, yet we do not
see such speech concerning the 2nd? Why is that? I believe it is due to
this truth:
Comment/question
You spiritualize this matter beyond what God does, in that the man and
woman promise each other to keep themselves for each other. God
witnesses this promise between the two people and endorses their union
with His blessing while they keep those promises.
Response
I realize you believe I spiritualize this topic. I did previously see
things "somewhat" as you do.
I
believe as I've sought the Lord on this issue, He has greatly opened up
my eyes to not only what the written Word states, and where many Pastors
are contradictory/hypocritical in their teachings/practices on this
issue, but what is His very heart on this issue. The fact remains that
many proponents of the "lawfulness" of remarriage while one has a living
spouse cannot explain away the meaning of Rom. 7:2-3 though I've seen
many "words" on it. Go through commentaries and see what you find.
Either they gloss right over it(saying that this is not a teaching on
marriage)or skip those verses entirely. Why is that?
The
truth is that Paul was addressing CHRISTIANS, not Jews living under the
law. He again spoke of the permanency of marriage in I Cor.
7:39----again, to a CHRISTIAN audience. After a full discourse on
marriage, he never once mentions it to be ok to remarry while one had a
living spouse. Even in I Cor. 7:15, we cannot find such an allowance,
though many "infer" that is what Paul meant, though he used a different
word for "bondage" than he used in his teachings on the marriage "bond".
Then
we go to Herod/Herodias----she divorced her husband Philip (the
historical account of that relationship can be found in the writings of
Josephus). Her divorce did not dissolve her marriage to Philip. Her
remarriage (adultery/incestual relationship) to Herod did not dissolve
her marriage to Philip. John clearly states that Herod HAS Philip's
wife. This aligns with Paul's teachings in Rom. 7:2-3, which states that
if a woman marries another while her husband is living, she SHALL be
called an adulteress. Herodias was Philip's wife, not Herod's wife---in
spite of the divorce, in spite of the remarriage (adultery)-----which
also lines up with Jesus' teachings that if one divorces and remarries
they commit adultery or if one marries one divorced, they commit
adultery (because the Lord has not "loosed" the bond between the lawful
couple.
Comment/question
Ok, then how do you explain David eating the showbread against the
explicit written law of God? David was well aware of this law. Should he
have even asked? Shouldn't he have refused the bread and held the Priest
accountable for even allowing him to have it? After all, the Priest
giving it to him was violating the law and David taking and eating it
was him acting in disobedience to the law.
I
Samuel 21. 6. So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no
bread there but the showbread, that was taken from before the Lord, to
put hot bread in the day when it was taken away.
MATTHEW 12: 3. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did,
when he was an hungered, and they that were with him;
4. How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread,
which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with
him, but only for the priests?
5. Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the
priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?
6. But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the
temple.
7. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not
sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Response
For me I cannot help but seeing something significant here: who gave
David the bread? The high priest of God. Who in the OT was placed as
intercessor between man and God---the high priest. Because the high
priest was "blameless" in the sight of God, he could decide to do
something against the ceremonial law for the good of a man.
In
the NT, who is our high priest? Jesus Christ. What does He state
concerning the use of marriage? Do we ever see Him "loosen" His
intentions concerning marriage for mankind.......If we did see the high
priest(Jesus) do so, you may have a point, yet I do not see that found
in the NT----where Jesus "loosens" any of the moral laws due to sin.
David did not sin by being hungry...........People do not sin by being
lonely.........they CAN sin however due to actions stemming from
hunger(stealing) or actions stemming from lonliness(adultery). I do not
see anywhere in scripture where Jesus gives a piece of "showbread" (a
temporary fix for hunger)to a person who is lonely due to a
divorce/sinning spouse, etc. He does something much better though----He
gives PEACE and COMFORT that surpasses all understanding and He give
eternal HOPE.
Comment/question
What does "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" mean to you? In what areas
are we supposed to apply this?
Response
It means the same thing as "Obedience is better than
sacrifice"..........Many will offer up sacrifices to the Lord in many
different forms, but will not obey Him in the hard thing He is
commanding. He doesn't want the sacrifices as shown in Mal. 2.........
I am
seriously not understanding why some demand "mercy" for the offended,
but that same mercy is not willing to be applied towards the present
offense. The thing is that we are called to forgive others as we have
been forgiven. How much more so a covenant spouse----the one the LORD
joined us to?
I
also don't understand how it is that when we look truly at most troubled
marriages, we find that the one presently "offended" many times is
reaping what they themselves have sown into the
marriage.............yet, they blame their spouse because somehow their
sin is worse???? Now all of a sudden THEY have just cause for divorce
and ultimately to find another? Can you explain that to me?
Comment/question
the law to love one another as Christ loves us. What reason would there
be for a new commandment if we were still under the old?
Did
Jesus' death on the cross not free us from all manner of bondage?
Response
The cross freed us from the bondage TO SIN, not to give us freedom to
continue to walk in disobedience in regards to the Laws of God. Jesus
very clearly in Luke 16:16-18 tells us what His mind is on covenant
marriage............and He placed great emphasis on the "law" of God
that does not change------marriage to another who is already married in
the sight of God(irregardless of a divorce) is adultery. Immediately
before addressing the laws of God that never change, Jesus spoke to the
Pharisees who justify themselves before men, yet their hearts were an
abomination to God.
For
those who believe that obedience is "legalism", what do you make of this
passage? Why is verse 18 stuck in there? Just a coincidence?
Comment/question
There are very very few spirit filled people around who have fully
committed their lives to God and are able or willing to follow Christ's
will. If they were, we might see more single workers for the kingdom.
So. now what????
Response
There needs to be a REVOLUTION in the churches ---otherwise, nothing
will change, except that more and more sin will be allowed in the camp
and we will become more and more desensitized to evil works of the
flesh. If we SEE sin in our camps, it needs to be dealt with---that
dealing with includes not only a change of mind towards that sin, but
forsaking those sins we are guilty of---as that is the "fruit" of
repentance.
In
Ezra 9-10, there was a GREAT revolution. God's judgment was upon that
nation because they had forsaken HIS commandments. Notice that His favor
was not restored with confession of sorrow at having departed from HIS
ways........it took ACTION on their parts to restore a right
relationship with the Lord.
Read
Mal. 2:6-17. There are many different things to point out in that
passage, but take particular notice of verse 13----sorrow, weeping, etc
do not satisfy the Lord. He rejects such. Yet, today, this is being
taught in the churches as true repentance. Notice in verse 14 the wife
of his youth IS the wife of covenant, not was........so now what. See in
todays' church, it is taught that "ok, you did commit adultery when you
remarried (many churches will admit this), now you need to acknowledge
this to the Lord and from this point on, live for Him----treat this NEW
wife as a covenant wife".......Is that what people take away from Mal. 2
as what will then satisfy the Lord and allow our "offerings" to be
acceptable to Him?
Today, many in the churches are being taught and have examples set for
them that they can disobey the commands of God and STILL get to keep the
"fruit" of disobedience if they only are "sorry"........but they are not
consistent in this teaching. Again, inconsistent application and
hypocrisy rears it's head. If we steal something from work, confess it
to our brethren........the counsel would be to return it. When we take
someone else's wife or husband (adultery, in the Lord's sight), we say
we can "keep" that which is STILL NOT OURS because we said "sorry". Why
is the church using different weights and measures concerning sin and
the application of true repentance? We know what the Lord says about
such practices..........
There
are many who are saying "do not judge", yet in I Cor. 5 we ARE told to
judge WITHIN the camp. There are many who are saying "The Lord Jesus'
Blood covers me if I am in adultery".......yet the Lord says, "For there
are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to
this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our Lord into
lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus
Christ. I will therefore put you in rememberance, though ye once knew
this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of
And
this: "I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy
patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest
that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach my
servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols,
and I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not,
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with
her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. and I
will kill her children with death and all the churches shall know that I
am he that searches the reins and hearts; and I will give unto every one
of YOU according to your works..Rev. 2:19-23.
and
this: For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye
should abstain from fornication that every one of your should know how
to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour, not in the lust of
concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God; That no man go
beyond and DEFRAUD his brother in ANY manner; because the Lord is the
avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
How
many in the "church" today are defrauding their brothers/sisters? Many
are taking each others husbands and wives as their own.
If I
have spoken falsely, may the Lord correct me and show me truth. But if I
have spoken truly and in the Will of the Lord, may He open the eyes of
the blind and help all of us to walk in accordance to His will for HIS
glory. Amen.
Comment/question
If you in your judging cause one to give up or fall, guess what you also
will be held accountable for that child falling.
Response
Truthfully, do you apply this reasoning to ALL
sinful relationships? What if an elder told a man to quit his sin who
had been conducting an extramarital affair for 20 years, had 5 children
as a result of this relationship, etc...........and that caused the man
great grief and turmoil? What if it caused him to stumble and "give up"
on the Christian life? How about the homosexual couple who is legally
married? They have 2 kids together. Appealing to them to repent of their
sinful relationship would be a hard, hard thing, no? Would you counsel
them to do such a thing?
Is ANYTHING to hard to give up when the Lord demands it? I don't believe
so, for those who really love the Lord. Those who love Him and trust
Him, will not "turn away" when what He speaks is too hard. Though they
may cry and mourn what is asked of them (and maybe ignore what He asks
at first), they have faith to know the Lord knows best...........they
ultimately will Trust Him and follow. There is no other way for the one
who is TRULY being conformed into His image.
Comment/question
Truthfully and quite honestly totally
different circumstances, nothing you have said or quoted has proven your
point about remarriage being continual "living in adultery". The above
examples are clearly sinful behaviour. And yes I would counsel them to
leave that sinful situation.
Response
When Jesus says that to marry a divorced person is to commit
adultery----by that very definition He is saying that if you marry
someone, you are committing adultery with another person's husband/wife.
Marriage then=adultery, not a God joined union. The very act of marriage
in those cases is taking to yourself another man's wife/another woman's
husband. If that relationship turns lawful sometime in the future,
outside of the lawful spouse's death, wouldn't we see that somewhere?
Comment/question
However, you cannot convince me that God in
all his wisdom did not know that that some christians would divorce and
remarry and not provide for forgiveness in his grace.
God loves us and is looking for ways to bring
us into fellowship not push us away. God is not looking for ways to keep
us out of heaven as some on here would like to believe.....
Response
You have not shown how the adultery changes
into a lawful marriage, honored by God. All we see in scripture is Jesus
and Paul saying such relationships are sinful. You apply grace to them,
but not other illicit relationships. I too believe that God is not
trying to keep some out of heaven, but you are contradictory on how you
apply His grace. He wants people to DEPART from illicit
relationships-----all of them and come follow Him. His grace is
sufficient. Jesus said His way was the "narrow" path and few would find
it. Many have tried to make His way WIDE, but that is not biblically
accurate. Just as many of the disciples turned away from Him (Jn.
6:65-68) when things got too hard to take, so it will be in this present
age. Never did Jesus 'water down" truth to win souls to Himself. He
spoke truth and those who wanted it, continued to follow Him. Those who
thought what He taught/commanded was too hard, turned away.......
some indignant, some sad...........
Comment/question
Please stop the judging...
.
Answer this question from your heart, do you think God loves it when you
judge others?
Response
God tells us to JUDGE each other-----those who call themselves "brother"
and "sister", not the world though(I Cor. 5). What He tells us NOT to do
is judge while we are in sinful situations ourselves (judging in
hypocrisy in other words---Mt. 7). How we are to "judge" is with
gentleness, longsuffering and the measuring stick of our judgments is
THE WORD OF GOD---TRUTH. We are NOT to judge/apply judgments based upon
emotion, personal situations which contradict God's Will for us, etc.
Judging righteous judgment does not mean that one must first have to
suffer a particular situation in order to know how rightly counsel with
the mind/heart of God..........It means that when we judge, it is in
perfect alignment with His Word----which shows us His heart/motivations
concerning His commandments for those who say they are followers. Many
of His commands may seem "unfair, hard to handle, etc", but He knows
what WILL produce fruit for the kingdom's sake. The Lord, while He cares
for our "earthly life", looks beyond that, desiring eternal rewards for
those who follow Him.
Comment/question
It is erroneous for you to think that a person who is divorced (whether
remarried or not) does not believe in "till death do us part." Again,
you don't know all the facts.
Response
I'm sorry if I've given that impression. I've never stated that divorced
people do not believe in "til death do us part". I happen to know many
who are divorced that are "remaining unmarried" in hopes of reconciling
with their wayward spouse (I Cor. 7:10-12). They do believe in "til
death do us part".
Also,
I would never think of someone as an adulterer/adulteress unless I knew
all the facts of their marital history as well as their partner's
history. Divorce and remarriage is SO common now, that one needs to know
all the facts concerning Past marriages to know who really is "bound" to
whom in the Lord's eyes. So many single people end up marrying divorced
persons, against scriptural admonishments, that there now is a HUGE mess
to untangle when one comes to the realization they are living in
disobedience and sin---in the Lord's sight. It truly is heartbreaking to
see and hear of all the situations out there.
Comment/question
I just hope those who experience this will be
able to find their way out from under this spirits judgment and
burdensome demands learning to really live according to God's spirit and
according to His word.
Response
For those who love the Lord, it is not burdensome to stop committing
adultery. Will it "hurt" to leave a relationship one is entangled in?
I'm sure it will. However, when the Lord said my "burden is light" He
meant that following Him will bring a peace, joy. It is when we refuse
to release our bondages(sin) and try to cling on to them, that there is
a "burden" felt........a pulling from both sides. When one lets Go and
lets God be God in one's life, His burden is light. Those of us who
speak against adultery, whether it be extramaritally or through a
remarriage, desire those in this type of bondage to walk free in the
Lord. Remaining/continuing in adultery is NOT walking in the Spirit. If
I was in error/blindness, I would want someone to tell me. Later, after
I repented, I would know that those who spoke truth to me were the ones
who really LOVED me----by the Spirit.
Comment/question
You are in absolutely no place to judge anybody on the motives of their
choices. They stand before the Lord. They are HIS servants and before
HIM they will stand or fall not anybody else.
Response
"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let
him know that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way,
shall save a soul from death and shall hide a multitude of
sins."......James 5:6
Some
of us believe this word spoken above and take it to heart greatly. Many
of us spend much time here, not to argue, but to save any brethren who
err--------because we care. It is the truth.
Comment/question
1 2 "Stop judging, that you may not be judged.
Everybody has sinned and comes short, even you. The difference is it's
easy for you to point to other people's "sin" and not your own which may
not be visible to the eye (but I sure do pick it up in your words). Just
know, that how you have judge and condemned and guilted women or men to
endure the sin against them and created fear of condemnation, please
know that one day, the GOOD LORD above, will take that same measure of
"mercy" and "grace" you gave to others when He is judging you. I hope
you REALLY think about that and realize how profound that is. What a
dangerous place to place ourselves in huh?
Where
he had threatened my life and was restricted by the law to come even
NEAR me for 6 months, he now is welcome in my home and we are at peace.
No, we will not ever be married again or have a romantic relationship
again, but if the above isn't forgiveness and reconciliation I'm not
sure what it is.
Response
As for your assertion that I or (name deleted) is "judgmental" in an
ungodly way, I believe you are very wrong about that----and cannot
justify such a position against us using scripture to do so. Paul was
very clear that the church IS to judge sin--------not to ignore it,
because if we do, it will GROW (I Cor. 5). I think there is clear
evidence of that truth in the rates of divorce/remarriage we are seeing
today in the "church". Because the sin is being ignored, it is growing.
Those who are calling sin sin, are now being labeled as "judgmental" in
order to silence. It's a shame to see. Many of the quoted pastors of old
would not even be welcome in many churches today because they dealt hard
with sin---in the Body of Christ. Many today would label such preachers
as Spurgeon, Whitfield, etc as "zealots"-------lacking Grace and being
pharisaical because they called people from their sin.
Concerning the passages you posted from Matthew 7, they are dealing with
HYPOCRISY, not the naming of sin. We are to FIRST get rid of the sin
that besets us so that we can THEN, help those who are in sin. Jesus
called the Pharisees ADULTERERS..........HYPOCRITES. They were guilty of
the very sins they were accusing others of. Hypocrisy was what Jesus was
dealing with in Matthew 7 and also brought forth the concept of repenting
oneself so that we are in the position to help others. One who is caught
up in sin can not be effective in helping another out of sin----the
blind leading the blind..........or when such a one comes forth with
"correction", they will be rebuked/rebuffed due to their own unrepented
sin seen by all.
These
are my thoughts on the discussing of what GOD says on the matter of
divorce/remarriage is not being condemning: If one feels "condemned" due
to another's belief on what scripture states, then I would say there may
be conviction/confusion that needs to be looked into and not
disregarded. I have heard many things (beliefs) in my Christian walk
which did not line up with my own beliefs and I did/do not feel
"condemned". I either am fully persuaded to the contrary due to my own
deep study on the issue, or if I am not studied and feel "urged", I go
to the Lord's Word and seek out the truth.
As to
your belief of forgiveness and reconciliation/lack of reconciliation
within a marital relationship, yes, we believe VERY differently. I view
a refusal to reconcile with a spouse (a covenant spouse) WHO IS
REPENTANT----as unforgiveness----and we all know what Jesus said about
those who will not forgive others their debts. One can "package" their
own form of reconciliation/forgiveness however they want to, but unless
it is the type of forgiveness that the Lord extends, it is a facade.
Concerning covenant marriage, our views are quite difference, hence our
view on reconciliation would be different as well, I suppose. You seem
to view marriage as something that "should be lifelong"...........I view
marriage as truly being lifelong, no matter what(" for
better/worse/sickness(mental or physical)/health/richer/poorer-----til
death do us part"). That's why I view refusal to reconcile with a truly
repentant spouse as unforgiveness towards the spouse and rebellion
against the Lord. It seems many choose to "forgive" according to their
own understanding/desires on how forgiveness should be lived out with
the other half of the "ONE FLESH".
For those who do not claim to know Jesus, this conduct I understand.
What I don't understand is when I see it coming from those who profess
to love the Lord dearly with all their heart, but who refuse to EVER
reconcile with the one the Lord joined them to----even if they SEE a
huge change in their spouse. That mindset I don't understand in a
Christian.
Comment/question
I think we need to remember that divorce is not always a sin, but
marriage while a spouse/ex-spouse lives is sin.
Response
I'd have to say because of the way most look at divorce(not as a
separation, but as a dissolving of the marriage bond), I could never
counsel anyone to divorce. I do believe separation may be necessary in
some cases. I also want to say that I do not believe all who are
divorced are in sin for the divorce, so I hope I have not given that
impression. Many do not want to be divorced, yet their spouses divorced
them anyways. Some, after a divorce end up repenting of their sins and
wish for reconciliation, but the offended spouse refuses to reconcile.
That is so sad to me.
As
you said, which I am in agreement----remarriage is what I have issue
with. I can't see any way biblically for someone to remarry without
committing adultery while having a living spouse. What God joins
together remains such until one of the parties dies.
Comment/question
Again, I say, I hate when we lump every DIVORCEE as an adulterer. That's
not what Christ taught.
Response
I don't think any of us lumps all divorcees as adulterers, because they
are not. The only ones who would be adulterers in the Lord's eyes
according to HIS Word, are those who join themselves with others while
they have a living covenant spouse. That point was being discussed in
the previous posts. In Mt. 5:32, the GUILTY (the one divorced for
marital infidelity) is STILL not released to be join with another. Why?
Because the covenant of marriage stands until one of the marriage
partners die (
Comment/question
Ok, here we go again lumping all divorcee/remarried folks as being
without love, etc.
There is no place here for those who left abusive/violent spouses to
protect themselves as much as is possible. you're even lumping folks
with the Pharisee.
Response
No, I don't lump all people together. Some divorcees had divorce forced
on them by spouses who were unforgiving and hardhearted. Some divorced
out of safety need, but know they are bound til death to the one God
joined them to. Some divorce and then remarry out of ignorance. They
simply do not know the scriptures and go by whatever seems accepted by
the masses and their pastors. They don't go to the Word and to the Lord
in prayer for themselves, they trust their lives in the hands of others.
They receive BAD counsel, counsel that appeases the "flesh"-----for a
time. The thing is that appeasing the flesh is what the Pharisees sought
to do-----they couldn't/wouldn't see that this was what they were doing,
just as many today do not have eyes to see that they too are going the
path of the Pharisee.
The
Pharisees wanted to sin and justify it with the law. The Standers are
wanting to see their spouses repent, because they LOVE and desire the
family that GOD gave them. Do you see them justifying something they
want to do using the "law" to do so? Or do you see them walking in the
Spirit, LOVING and desiring the repentance of those who are in
error----even though they are reviled by their spouses, mocked, and in
some cases even put out of their church? Seems to me such peoples are
seeking to do the Will of the Father concerning their marriages and are
suffering for righteousness' sake.
Comment/question
The One-flesh doctrine as you interpret it is the same context as when
Prayed that his disciples would be one like he and the father are one. I
have told you that there are many, many church folks who are living as
divorced (and have been for years) but refused to be accused of
divorcing. One lives in separate state/house/town with no hope/desire to
reconcile. And you've no answer for this and this is good/better than
actually being divorced???
Response
Yes, it is better than being divorced. The reason they don't divorce
because they KNOW it is wrong in the sight of God...........and they
don't want to go ALL the way in their sin(even if they don't realize
that is what they are doing, deep down inside). Probably in the back of
their minds they wonder if possibly something will happen-----either the
death of their spouse(freeing them) and in some cases hoping one of them
will change and become a Godly person. Whatever the case is, not
divorcing IS a good thing, because the "world" says, "you're divorced,
you can move on now"..........but something in many of them says
otherwise.
I
really don't understand what your point is here, though. Did you expect
me to say that just because a person's heart is not right IN a marriage,
then it is better for them to depart their marriage? I don't understand
that reasoning-----at all.
Comment/question
If scripture says that someone is committing adultery, then the most
loving thing you can do is tell them and encourage them to repent. To
comfort someone in rebellion against God is the most hateful thing a
person can do.
Response
I agree because that is what scripture teaches.
BROTHER, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and
one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from
the error of h is way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a
multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20)
Comment/question
All they want is a little peace on this side of heaven.
Response
Many times we find "war" because we ourselves are in rebellion. We
falsely assume we can find "peace" with a person---so we seek those who
do not yet "push our buttons"........notice I say "YET". TRUE Peace is
only found with God. That is the only peace worth having on this side of
heaven.
Comment/question
Where is the compassionate Lord here??? Is he not the same yesterday,
today and forever. Did he lose compassion for suffering people after
Christ and say we need to learn to suffer some MORE???
Response
The higher way is to seek OTHERS good...........not one's own. I'm sure
many of those who separated/divorced their covenant spouses are not the
only ones suffering. Many of the "left" spouses are suffering as well as
the children whose family has been ripped apart................yet, the
focus many times remains on "self".........not the children, not the
other spouse, not the other person in the picture and God's best for
them.........it is purely "SELF". Is this God? I dont' believe so.
Comment/question
This is again a blatant sweeping generality. These families are torn
apart long before the divorce. Some houses are war zones inside and
divorce finally brings peace.
Response
You are correct in that there is a separation of sorts when there is
"war" in the home. I understand the mindset that divorce brings peace,
but as Blessed says, REAL peace comes from obeying the voice of the
Lord. If the Lord states that if a woman departs, her options are to
remain unmarried or be reconciled........if she does otherwise, she will
be in sin. Divorce does not equal dissolving of the marriage (as we see
in I Cor. 7:10-11)-----hence the "unmarried" statement.
I
have noticed many times that people say "if a man WAS saved, he wouldn't
do such and such"----thus they say that such a person is NOT saved-----
and so they use I Cor. 15 to enter into another marriage(which Paul
never gave permission for in the first place).
The
thing is that Paul did acknowledge that there will be times when
CHRISTIANS(real or just professing) can not dwell together, hence the
acknowledgment that reconciliation MAY not occur..........that does not
however, waive the previous commandment to "remain unmarried".......
You
are correct in that there is a separation of sorts when there is "war"
in the home. I understand the mindset that divorce brings peace, but as
Blessed says, REAL peace comes from obeying the voice of the Lord. If
the Lord states that if a woman departs, her options are to remain
unmarried or be reconciled........if she does otherwise, she will be in
sin. Divorce does not equal dissolving of the marriage (as we see in I
Cor. 7:10-11)-----hence the "unmarried" statement.
I
have noticed many times that people say "if a man WAS saved, he wouldn't
do such and such"----thus they say that such a person is NOT saved-----
and so they use I Cor. 15 to enter into another marriage(which Paul
never gave permission for in the first place).
The
thing is that Paul did acknowledge that there will be times when
CHRISTIANS(real or just professing) can not dwell together, hence the
acknowledgment that reconciliation MAY not occur..........that does not
however, waive the previous commandment to "remain unmarried".......
Comment/question
Well you know what? When someone wants to justify their disobedience to
Christ's teaching, they conveniently leave out the very words of Christ,
words like "except for immorality".
Response
love suffers long...........love seeks not its own.........love bears
all things, believes all things, hopes in all things, endures all
things..............
LOVE
NEVER FAILS (I Cor. 13)
When
we look for an "out"............we must ask ourselves this: concerning
an erring spouse..........are we LOVING them by any actions taken
against them(ie; divorce to "free" ourselves and in our hearts the
desire to hook up with another)? Are we loving our neighbor(covenant
spouse/parent of our children) as ourself, because if we truly are a
Christian, this IS what we are called to do----LOVING to the point of
sacrificing/putting down our own "wants"?
On
the other side of the coin, if we became entrenched in sin(ensnared by
the devil), would we want others in our lives to slam the door shut on
us, forever changing the nature of our relationship.........OR would we
be ever so thankful for those who LOVED us through our sin, praying for
us, weeping for us, WAITING for us to repent and come home?
Which
type of "love" reflects the love of Christ? It's not a hard thing to
discern........
Ps. I
have seen the "fruit" of those who have LOVED through
adultery............the husband left home, moved away with the other
woman..............and she stood fast, loving her husband from
afar.............he eventually came back to the "light" and came back
home. They now have a beautiful ministry and marriage------their story
correctly represents the LOVE of Christ to those around them. She didn't
"replace" her sinning husband, she wanted to be like Jesus and wanted
her family WHOLE, so she loved, prayed, and waited. Jesus died for us
yet WHILE WE WERE SINNERS.............He didn't wait til we cleaned up
our act to love us, He loved us Through our sin, and then we came to
LOVE HIM because He loved us.................
Comment/question
And divorce is not an indication of sin on the part of the divorced.
There are some very married people who are immoral. There are some very
divorced people who did no wrong in their marriage.
Response
I think I've made it clear in previous threads, (name deleted), that
some who are divorced, it was out of necessity of safety, etc. However,
the divorce did not dissolve what God joined together, it merely, in the
sight of God, is a separation of bed and board for a time, or for some
unfortunately, it is permanent(I Cor. 7:10-11).
Comment/question
And sometimes, He grows us through fire. We are not grown through
complacency and peace. God knows that we grow closer to Him and grow in
our faith when it is tested. And some of us have done that growing. And
because I TRULY belong to the Lord, I have not been content with simple
milk of Scripture for decades. I go after the meat of Scripture and a
deeper walk. And I yearn to understand not only the surface of His Word,
but its length and depth and breadth.
Response
We must be very sure that we do not go around the fire, but through it.
Many think that God spares them from the fire (or they think they may
get singed, but they do not have to go through it). Real kingdom rewards
come from ENDURING, not cutting and running, seeking a "better" life in
the here and now. If God has allowed suffering in our lives, there is
reason. Many do not want to endure suffering, but to have it end as soon
as possible so they can "get on with their lives" in a way THEY deem
"good". They do not realize that what they are doing WILL effect their
eternal destiny as well as the eternal destinies of others. We are to be
kingdom minded, not earthly minded------IF we are true believers. The
"fruit" of divorce/remarriage in the confessing "church" shows
me...................and the world, what we are seeking after and it's
not of benefit to the
Comment/question
No, deep down in our hearts those of us that have suffered from divorce,
and especially those that were not of our own doing, know that it is
horrible, painful, and to be avoided if at all possible. It is not right
that at times one spouse acts immorally and victimizes the other spouse.
It is right if that victim seeks their own protection. And it is right
that God sees the believer through to the other side and their faith has
grown because of the experience.
Response
See, I don't see anything wrong in most this part of your post. It is
truth. What is not truth is thinking that one is "free" to move on to
other relationships when GOD has not dissolved the marriage one was in.
To me, if one does move on, they have NOT got to the other side. Those
who have made it to the "other side" see the offender in the marriage as
God does (and they also see their own sin which may have had a part in
the other's sin). And if one does truly get to the other side, leaving
that spouse and moving on is the farthest thing from their mind. What is
on their mind is to LOVE them as Jesus loves the "offended"
one...........or as He loves any of us(while we were YET sinners). As
(name deleted) has said, Jesus goes after the LOST sheep..............he
doesn't get a "new sheep" and say, "well, that was just one rebellious,
sinful sheep. Think I'll get a newer/better one that will honor my
shepherding better"..............If Jesus is not like that, and we claim
to have Jesus IN US, why would we think it good to do other than He
would do?
See,
this is where I think you don't get it. I don't believe scripture
ANYWHERE in the NT gives a believer RIGHTS not to be offended, sinned
against, ect. What we ARE called to do is to LOVE those who offend us,
hurt us, use us, treat us poorly, etc. Many in the Christian camp
counsel others to love and forgive, but DO NOT do so concerning one's
own spouse! That I just cannot reconcile with scripture. As I said, for
a "Christian" to walk away from a marriage and move on leaves a horrible
picture to the children of the marriage on the sanctity of marriage and
sows seeds in them for the future in which THEY will be able to justify
divorce instead of loving their spouses through their own personal
sins..........................and I think I can CONFIDENTLY say:
THIS
generation is reaping the destruction of family due to the PREVIOUS
Generation's disregard for marriage............hence divorce is
growing..................and in response to this, many people are now
choosing rather to live in sin (fornication) rather than be one of the
divorce statistics. It's all very sad and every single one of us has
been negatively affected.
For
some of the divorced/remarried, life may not seem so complicated. For
most though, their lives are VERY complicated. I know because I read the
posts here. The anger at the finances of the second family because the
father has to pay for his first children.........anger at the "other"
parent because they aren't parenting as good as the "replacement"
parent, kids that resent the step-parent and what the step-parent should
do, etc, etc. What a MESS!!! And when all the kids grow up, then the
problems start of where to visit, when to visit, whom to invite, whom
not to invite...............again, WHAT A MESS!
and
still, you think it's good..............as long as the "i's" are dotted
and "t's" crossed..........I don't understand that viewpoint at
all---------and as I said, can't reconcile it with scripture, at all.
Comment/question
So are you saying you do not condemn those that truly believe that they
are personally led to marry another?
Response
Neither you nor I have the power to "condemn" anyone. Sharing what one
believes to be sin is not "condeming".............it very much is a
loving thing to do as there are eternal consequences for continuing in
adultery. (james 5:19-20)
Comment/question
The Pharisees liked to add to the law too... So they could appear Holier
than the "sinners"....
Take
the Word in context - in entirety.
Response
The Pharisees wanted to expand God's law on marriage so they could SIN
MORE, not so they could appear more holy. Jesus clearly shows that their
looking for "loopholes" showed where their hearts were..........and
their hearts were NOT looking to do the Will of God, but to feed their
flesh/emotions/etc.
Comment/question