"Look at the legalized adultery we call divorce.
Men marry one wife after another and are still admitted into good
society; and women do likewise. There are thousands of supposedly
respectable men in American living with other men's wives, and thousands
of supposedly respectable women living with other women's husbands."
- R. A. Torrey From R.A. Torrey's book How to Pray, pages 94-95
R.A. Torrey (1856-1928) was a very well-known Christian writer,
evangelist, pastor, graduate of Yale University, and was also the
superintendent of Moody Bible Institute for 19 years.
TRINITY BARS THE
DIVORCED.; No Remarriage in the Church or Any of the Chapels.
The clergy of Trinity Church announced yesterday that under no
circumstances will divorced persons be married by any of the clergy of
that Episcopal parish, nor will such marriages be permitted either in
the church at Wall Street and Broadway or in any one of the parish's
eight chapels. The announcement was as follows:
View full article New York Times
December 7, 1904, Wednesday
Comment/question
In Deut. 25, the living brother is to marry his dead
brother's wife, and there is absolutely no statement whatsoever in
regards to the living brother's marital status. He could be single, or
he could already be married. The passage says nothing either
way. All that is said is,
If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the
widow of the dead man shall not be married to a stranger outside the
family; her husband's brother shall go in to her, take her as his wife,
and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her.
If the living brother was already married, then we have here a
command from God for a man to have a polygymous relationship. If
the living brother was already married, in order to obey the Lord, the
man would be required to have more than one wife. If he refused to do
so, he would be spitting in the face of God and bear reproach
(Deuteronomy 25:9-10).
Response
See, in the above, you are inserting your opinion that God
looks on polygamy as "good", therefore it is assumed by you that the
brother that dwells with the other must be married. Yet, scripture does
not state that, so all we can do is wonder about the brother's marital
status.
Comment/question
Don't you think it's somewhat manipulative to measure God's
endorsement for polygamy as merely "tolerable" simply because you
personally find it repugnant?
Response
I don't think I ever said that I find
polygamy "repugnant", though I do see IN GOD'S WORD that He never
created marriage to be ONE MAN/MANY WIVES. Jesus was pretty clear about
taking TWO and making them ONE flesh............not taking three, four,
five, six, etc. TWO. That is the Lord's Word on marriage, not mine.
Comment/question
I dislike answering a question with a question, but can you
show me where a man having extramarital relationships was ever defined
in the Bible as being adulterous, apart from that relationship involving
another man's wife? I would be very interested to see any reference of
which you may know.
Response
Wow, so it's adultery for a SINGLE person to take to
themselves a married person, but it's ok for a married person to have
illicit relations with a SINGLE person? Here's a good passage for you:
Mk. 10:11--"whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another,
committeth adultery AGAINST HER." I would say that is an
"extra-marital" relationship that is CLEARLY defined as adulterous, no?
Comment/question
Right before Abraham's death, we're told that he had other
wives according to Genesis 25. There are those who assume that
concubines were not really wives, when in fact they were, with the only
distinction being that the offspring of the concubines were not entitled
to a portion of the inheritance. Sleeping with another man's
concubine(s) was tantamount to sleeping with his wife, which is indeed
adultery. One need only read about David's reaction to men sleeping with
his ten concubine wives.
Response
Scripture says that he had concubines (you inserted wives
into that). Scripture shows that a first wife was the preeminent
one in God's sight(Sara, Leah, Michal(whom David took back from
her 2nd husband).
Comment/question
Very true indeed. My purpose for addressing the negative
attacks against polygyny is to cast a measure upon the inordinately
negative focus cast upon those great men who happened to have had more
than one wife, and how allegedly wrong it was for them to do so, and yet
we have people in our circle of fellowship, friends and family living
adulterous lives right under our noses, and say nothing about it.
After all, we don't want to offend them, do we?
Response
The thing is, that this thread is not about
polygamy. It is true that
polygamy is used as an example of one type of relationship that
is NOT God's intent for marriage. Polygamous marriage is no better than
adulterous marriage in the sight of God. BOTH pervert His creation
intent for marriage---1 woman, 1 man for life..........TWO made into ONE
flesh. Both relationships are adultery against the original mate that
God joined one to. In the OT we find that God allowed divorce/remarriage
without it being called "adultery". In the OT we see that God allowed
polygamy without it being called adultery
against the original spouse. However, Jesus brought marriage back to the
creation intent for marriage---so again, BOTH types are sinful.
Comment/question
There are those who think that an adulterous remarriage
somehow ceases to be an adulterous relationship after the point of
acquiring a piece of paper providing legal recognition of the
marriage from City Hall. Oh, how daft so many people are.
Here's the deal: If I steal from other people, repent before the Lord,
and go right back and steal again, it's theft all over again, lending
ample evidence to the fact that my initial repentance can indeed be
called into serious question. Ongoing theft doesn't become acceptable
before the Lord simply because I acknowledged my wrong at some point,
and yet continued in the error.
Most people, however, think that adultery falls within a completely
different category of sin, therefore making any comparison illegitimate.
I have yet to meet the man who can effectively defend such thinking, but
in practice, most remarriages are an attempt at idealizing such a
concept as legitimate, although such a moral philosophy is simply absent
from the word of God.
Response
No disagreement with you there.
Comment/question
Conversely, many an ignorant fellow and gal will sit back
upon haunches, and spew a parade of condemnation against a marital form
within which God actively involved Himself, and declare it as being
inferior in relation to what Adam was given in the Garden. How crass.
How philistine. The lowbrow approach to this topic is at times a
remarkable demonstration of aggrandizement of a philosophy that clearly
is of this world.
Response
Again, Jesus spoke. Shall we listen or shall we try to
justify what we want by finding those instances in the Old Testament. Using the OT
to proclaim the rightness of polygamy is no
different than using the OT to proclaim the rightness of
divorce/remarriage. Both were "tolerated" before Jesus came in the flesh
and spoke HIS WILL/command in regards to the use of marriage.
Comment/question
God gave Adam one wife, but He gave David several. So what?
Response
David TOOK many wives............very different than God
GIVING them to him.
Comment/question
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my
commandments.
That wasn't a suggestion, or a mere prompting to do right. It speaks of
a direct measure of one's love for a Lord to whom many pay nothing more
than lip service.
Response
Absolutely. God commanded that man (or woman) should not
put asunder (come between, pull apart, etc) what God has joined
together. Bringing a third, forth, fifth, etc is certainly COMING
BETWEEN what God has joined together, no?
Comment/question
So, the question remains unanswered in the hearts and minds
of many: Is my remarriage to my wife an adulterous relationship? Given
the fact that divorce courts have no power to alter what God has sealed
in heaven, what is the truth about my relationship with another man's
wife? Many can deny the obvious, but they can never escape its ultimate
end when the Day of Judgment comes upon us all.
The cultural and religious norm is to ignore the moral dynamics of
wrongful divorce and adulterous remarriage, and thus make it more
acceptable so long as we can keep any and all scrutiny beyond arm's
length.
Response
Agreed.
Comment/question
What it comes down to is each one asking himself as to
what's more important; following after a theological system of thought
defined by hedonistic tendencies, or seeking after truths that are not
subject to our whims and fancies, therefore truly objective.
Response
Yes, that really is what it comes down to, isn't it?
Comment/question
When
again did it say in the Bible that when Christ died on the cross they he
was essentially taking us back to the "original" plan for marriage???
You haven't answered that either.
Response
It is found in Matthew
19:1-7.............and Mark 10:1-10.
Jesus spoke this not only to UNBELIEVERS, but to His disciples as well.
If you believe divorce and remarriage is permissible, do you also
believe that polygamy is acceptable in God's sight?
Comment/question
Polygyny is a marital form the God described within the
bible not only directly involved Himself, but He also gave plural wives
and even commanded the plurality of wives in certain instances.
Even God's Law made governing provision for men to have more than one
wife.
God Himself actively gave plural wives to men.
It's also something the Lord practiced when He divorced Israel while
still married to Judah.
you stand as an accuser of God Himself, for He gave men plural wives.
Response
Could you please provide all the verses where God COMMANDED
man to take more than one wife, since you seem to believe that for God,
it is a GOOD thing for a man to have multiple wives (and I do know of
the practice of a man taking his brother's wife as wife if they had no
child prior to the husband's death). Personally, I believe it was a
"tolerable" thing for SOME cases, yet it was NOT how God designed
marriage (1man/1woman for life).
Comment/question
The only way a man could commit adultery against his wife
is to divorce her to marry another. That's it. Period.
Response
Really? You do not believe extra-marital affairs are
adultery in God's sight?
Comment/question
You also stand as an accuser against Abraham, the father of
the Christian faith, who also had plural wives.
Response
If you are speaking of Hagar, she was certainly NOT what
God wanted for Abraham. She eventually was sent away and Abraham resumed
the role of husband ONLY with Sara until her death.
Comment/question
No LB,
I don't promote polygamy or say that God endorses it. What I do say is
that the weak attempt at logic put forth by the standers cultists
doesn't fly. They try to claim that God ONLY sees the first wife as a
REAL wife and that ALL the others are just whores and not wives at all.
Most inconveniently for them, Scripture simply WILL NOT ALLOW
such nuttery.
Response
Why
will scripture not allow it? Can you point me to scripture in which
Jesus says that God will join the 2, 3, 4, + and they shall be ONE
flesh? I only see Jesus saying the 2 will become ONE flesh. Are you
basing what you believe to be true based on the actions of men in the OT
who went against the creation intent for marriage?
Comment/question
As to
the questions on polygamy, Scripture is very notably silent on the issue
in some contexts where one would expect it to be most verbose if
it were an abomination to God's Way and Will. Our Savior was the product
of a lineage that involved MANY polygamous marriages. The simple fact is
that near eastern cultures did not find it immoral at all. Our western
cultures do. Which should we give the greater credence to? ...God's
Word? ...or our Western cultural heritage?
Response
Does
cultural acceptance define what is "good" in the sight of God? Scripture
seems to indicate not so. Again, Jesus in His dealings with
marriage/divorce/remarriage says that the TWO shall become ONE. That
whatsoever GOD has joined together is no longer TWO, but ONE. I think
Jesus made it very clear what He thought about polygamy.
For more study on polygamy and remarriage see
Jesus' Doctrine of Marriage Divorce and Remarriage
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A Preacher's Repentance From Adulterous Remarriage.
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Critique
of David Instone-Brewer on Divorce
By Dr. Leslie McFall
Former lecturer in Hebrew and Old Testament. Now a full-time researcher in
Biblical Studies.
Former Research Fellow at Tyndale House Library (Cambridge, England).
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