"Look at the legalized adultery we call divorce.
Men marry one wife after another and are still admitted into good
society; and women do likewise. There are thousands of supposedly
respectable men in American living with other men's wives, and thousands
of supposedly respectable women living with other women's husbands."
- R. A. Torrey From R.A. Torrey's book How to Pray, pages 94-95
R.A. Torrey (1856-1928) was a very well-known Christian writer,
evangelist, pastor, graduate of Yale University, and was also the
superintendent of Moody Bible Institute for 19 years.
TRINITY BARS THE
DIVORCED.; No Remarriage in the Church or Any of the Chapels.
The clergy of Trinity Church announced yesterday that under no
circumstances will divorced persons be married by any of the clergy of
that Episcopal parish, nor will such marriages be permitted either in
the church at Wall Street and Broadway or in any one of the parish's
eight chapels. The announcement was as follows:
View full article New York Times
December 7, 1904, Wednesday
Comment/question
God hates divorce and you made a mistake the first time but I don't
think God would like you to sin in divorcing your second wife to try to
make up for the sin you created by divorcing and cheating on your first
wife...ungodly union or not.
Response
In Malachi 2 when God says He hates divorce, it is in regards to a
first (covenant) marriage---the putting away of a covenant wife(wife of
one's youth). It has nothing to do with forsaking sinful relationships
outside of that first marriage.
Concerning divorce, in Ezra 9-10 we find that the men of
One
thing that those who believe remarital adultery is NOT a continuous
sinful relationship, may want to consider is this: if you counsel
someone to STAY in relationship that is in fact sin to the Lord because
the original marriage is bound til one of them dies, aren't you "causing
a little one to stumble (sin)"?
Comment/question
I keep forgetting to mention this.
2Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall
come. 2Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves,
covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents,
unthankful, unholy, 2Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection,
trucebreakers (as in those leaving spouses unlawfully, as the case is
with these anti-MDR people), false accusers, incontinent, fierce,
despisers of those that are good, 2Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady,
highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 2Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such
turn away. 2Timothy 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into
houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away
with divers lusts, 2Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to
the knowledge of the truth.
It's
so easy to mislead people that are laden down with sins, because they
are desperate. I thought I should share that.
Response
Funny you should see that passage the way you do, (Name Deleted) When I
read the part about some being "trucebreakers", it appears to me that
this is regarding the ORIGINAL marriage entered into----the one which
God enters, taking two and making one. I don't see the forsaking of a
sinful union as applying to the text of II Tim. 3. The whole passage is
about sin GROWING, not in regards to those who have a heart to forsake
sin because they love the Lord.
This
is affirmed also in the next chapter where we see that it is BECAUSE
people want to remain in their sin that they heap around themselves
false teachers who will tell them comfortable things..........
Comment/question
Once you begin to tamper with the Word and what it really says, you
quickly go beyond what is written and add stuff (divorcing if the second
marriage was born of sin). There is not one place in Scripture where
that is commanded and yet this is what people are saying God says.
Response
I suppose then because civilly divorcing a homosexual mate isn't stated
in scripture, then you don't believe it should be done----that you take
the position that ALL divorce is evil in God's sight?
Comment/question
I will repeat on this one. This is not a discussion regarding same sex
unions. Homosexual "marriages" are not even addressed in Scripture.
There is no issue concerning marriage or divorce between homosexuals
because homosexuality is condemned in Scripture period. Same sex
marriages are a civil issue until they come to the church.
Response
You're ignoring my question. You said," (divorcing if the second
marriage was born of sin). There is not one place in Scripture where
that is commanded and yet this is what people are saying God says".
If divorce is not mentioned in scripture concerning adulterous unions,
and divorce concerning homosexual marriage is also not mentioned in
scripture, then BOTH sexual unions, you are saying ,can be STAYED
in----yes? (See
You can’t Compare
Homosexual Unions with Remarriage
)
Comment/question
Say what you will but you still haven't provided a passage in the bible
that instructs couples to divorce after they've remarried. Just waiting
for a Scripture not anyone's trip beyond what is actually written. It
doesn't bother you that you can't specifically pull out a verse that
deals with marriage/divorce that states this? The only time we see
divorce being instructed is when the Israelites married outside the
faith and you can't use that one because it doesn't apply here.
Response
Let's deal with Herod and Herodias again. John told Herod that he had
Philip's wife. What do you think repentance would have meant for Herod?
How about the man who had his father's wife in the Corinthian church?
Does repentance mean they can keep what is not rightfully theirs since
they have already taken it? How about if I steal a car............the
car STILL belongs to the rightful owner.............do I get to keep it
now that I have taken it and driven it over 1,000 miles? What if I have
it 10 years, does it then belong to me?
Comment/question
My request is straightforward. If what your saying is truth then you
don't have to bob and weave with the Scriptures. As important as this
is, it should be a clear instruction. Paul addressed everything else. He
took the time to correct the people so that they were clear that they
should have sex with their spouses and not deny one another. Surely the
man who took time to deal with this, would have taken all the more time
to deal with the issue of divorcing after remarriage.
Response
Paul did not tell the people in the Corinthian church what the man who
had his father's wife should do. He did tell the church to cast him out,
so that his sin did not influence them for evil. I think it was pretty
clear that even though Paul did not tell the sinning man what he should
specifically do, that this relationship was SIN..........and when one is
in sin, they need to forsake it.
Comment/question
When they got married they now belong to one another. They are no longer
the property of the former spouse.
Response
That's not what Jesus says. He says when they join with another, it is
adultery. Are you going to say that when one person has an extramarital
affair, the covenant couple is no longer married, but the adulterous
couple now belong to each other? If your emphasis is on the "vow", Jesus
doesn't seem to give that element much stock, since again, he calls such
relationships adultery.
Comment/question
The same way God can forgive those who go back to the former after
having divorced and remarried (which is against his Word) is the same
way God can forgive those who illegally married.
Response
The illegally married do not belong to each other................VERY
different scenario.
Comment/question
You can't shell out God's forgiveness for the disobedient that you think
are in the right and then deny that same forgiveness to those you say
are disobedient as well on the remarriage side.
Response
Again, a covenant marriage is not a sin. Adultery is a sin and in most
cases, divorce is a sin. Adultery and divorce need to be repented of.
One doesn't repent from a covenant marriage. They return to it, if they
have forsaken their covenant in favor of entering into sin.
Comment/question
I think the double standard is really odd . Divorce is both holy and
unholy. It's sin over here but righteous over there.
Response
Mal. 2 deals with divorce in COVENANT marriage. God hates the putting
away of COVENANT marriage. God also desires to see covenant marriages
restored.................See Hosea 2 (Gomer wanted to return to
her 1st husband..........because it was better for her). Explain
how Gomer returning to Hosea is an "abomination"..............
Did
the men of Ezra 9-10 do "wrong" IN THE LORD'S SIGHT in
putting away their unlawful wives/children?
Comment/question
The most devastating part of this error teaching is the admonishment to
divorce the current spouse and seek reconciliation with the first if
possible.
Response
Tell that to the wife or husband of the covenant marriage and the
children who have been forsaken----tell them how devastating it would be
for them to have their husband/wife/daddy/mommy back................
tell them that they should be praying instead for their
spouse/daddy/mommy to be happy in their sin.
Comment/question
The
issue I was addressing is whether it is biblical to divorce a second
time. That is the point of the posting. I know you won't agree based on
your stand but your response is not addressing the Scripture.
Response
Is is biblical? Yes. Read again Ezra 9-10. Do you discount THAT event,
which very much more reflects this discussion (unlike the Samuel passage
you quoted).
Comment/question
Actually I reject it because there is no biblical instruction to enter
into a second divorce. I have no problem with Jesus calling any matter
divorces adultery but again, that is where He stopped. There is no
instruction in the NT that says a couple should divorce again. As I have
said, this has been added. It may seem right but from what I see in
Scripture, it is not the correct solution
Response
What do you see in scripture that leads you to believe that restoring a
covenant family back together again is NOT the correct solution?
Comment/question
The
woman at the well was living with a man that was not her husband. This
means she was not married to him. There is a big difference between
telling a woman to leave the relationship in which she is just living
with the guy and telling a married woman or man to divorce their second
husband/wife. That is not the same thing.
Response
Well, of course you would say it is not the same thing, but it is. The
woman at the well was living in a sinful relationship. Jesus said that
those who put away their spouses and marry others are living in a SINFUL
relationship. Either you believe people can continue to live in sinful
relationships or they must forsake those sinful relationships. It
matters not if it's fornication or adultery.
Comment/question
Not
at all. What I'm saying is that one must first call it sin and that is
why this debate is so long. What you call sin is called a marriage to
others and you would have them label it sin and then instruct them to
repent.
Response
Jesus called it sin, that is all we need to hear.
Comment/question
No I
do not discount Ezra at all but this is not a case where men are
divorcing their Christian wives to marry pagans is it?
Response
What??? The men transgressed against God and married women that were
forbidden to them. They put away their covenant wives to do so!!! Then,
in repentance, they put away their pagan wives. So this "two wrongs
doesn't make a right" argument is baseless---based upon God's Word to
the contrary. The only divorce that scripture speaks about as God
hating, is the putting away of a COVENANT spouse---the wife/husband of
one's youth!
Comment/question
Just
one question though, if the second marriage is unlawful to the Lord
(scripturally speaking) and He does not recognize the second marriage as
a marriage at all, but adultery, you must separate yourself from the
second marriage at least physically right (no sexual contact, no living
together, etc..? It doesn't necessarily mean a divorce does it? Someone
could get legally separated, but not necessarily have to divorce if I'm
understanding this. I am going to PM you to tell you why I am asking
these questions. Thanks again
Response
I'll be happy to answer your PM, but for the benefit of those who are
reading this thread, I'll answer your question here too. I would say
that for a Christian, we SHOULD sever all ties with a person we were
committing adultery with (obviously though, there still will be ties if
children are involved---this being a lasting repercussion of our sin) .
Why the necessity of a civil divorce? Because we wouldn't want to give
the appearance to those on the "outside" or even other professing
Christians, that we are still "married", but living apart from the
adulterous partner. They will continue to view the partner in adultery
as a legal spouse---and you will be seen as one who is
"rebellious/disobedient" because you won't reconcile with who they
"think" is your spouse.
The thing is, if one truly believes they already have a legal
spouse(their covenant mate), then they wouldn't want others to continue
believing the "unlawful" one is actually still a spouse, although
separated from each other.
Intimacy stopping, then physical separation, then civil divorce would be
the proper steps for a Christian to take once they are convicted of
their sin. There are instances when physical separation and divorce
cannot happen immediately, which is understandable, but I believe fully,
and have seen it work, that GOD will provide the ability to do His Will
in these situations. Blessings.........
Comment/question
It
seems to me that God does not hate every divorce because these men
divorced according to the will of God.
Response
ah, I am glad you are finally admitting this. Now, in the Malachi 2
scenario, the men divorced their COVENANT wives. THIS is what God hated.
Divorce that was GOOD, was that the men PUT AWAY the women whom were
forbidden them. It was God's Will to divorce such women----even though
they had children together, these women were not COVENANT wives.
Comment/question
We
are not talking about a legitimate divorce for biblical reasons.
Response
Yes, the only "biblical" reason God approves of a divorce is to remove a
third party(or second party) from the ONE FLESH. The NT is no different
than the OT in that regard.
Comment/question
The
permit to divorce (from 2nd marriage) with no true biblical grounds. The
permission to break your vow to someone. The encouragement to divorce
for the express purpose of being with another (first spouse). All this
in the name of Jesus.
Response
Being joined with someone who is NOT one's lawful spouse in the Lord's
eyes is a VERY GOOD reason to forsake that illicit relationship. I find
it quite ironic that some put so much effort in keeping together those
unions Jesus calls adultery, yet they do not seem to have the same
passion about the original marriages-----even when a woman/man is
standing, fasting, praying, for God to bring their adulterous spouse
home.
Comment/question
Even
worse if the former spouse has remarried. Then comes the desire for a
divorce to occur in that marriage. The desire for someone who doesn't
belong to you any longer.
Response
Again, you ignore Jesus' very words on this issue. The second couple are
committing adultery. It is adultery because the first marriage is not
dissolved in the sight of God. It matters not what society deems "legal"
when it is an affront to God.
Comment/question
I dare these people who are quoting these false doctrines to find ONE
scripture that states repentance of an adulterous marriage requires you
divorce them and leave that marriage. If obviously everything else in
there is pretty clear cut/to the point/quite described-why would He
leave this out if he intended for us to repent by divorcing again?
Response
Do we have to have exact scripture before we can say that a homosexual
who is repentant should forsake his/her relationship as the fruit of
repentance? How about a couple living together in fornication? How about
a person who is a known liar? Did not Jesus already label the sin(s)? Is
that not good enough for us? Do we have a misunderstanding as to what
true repentance entails?
Comment/question
I have never seen anyone here give an example from scripture or early
church records of anyone being told to either commit a second divorce
after they had re-married and go back to their "first" spouse, or that
the divorce they had already obtained was not legal and that they must
go back to their "first" husband.
Response
There has been scriptures given in which the Lord does not recognize a
union as one HE joined and blesses.
Ezra
9-10 DOES show men divorcing their wives (and children) because they
joined themselves with those the Lord commanded them not to.
We
also have the example in Mal. 2-----the Lord REJECTS the offerings of
the man who has divorced his covenant wife and married another. With
today's popular teachings, isn't GRACE supposed to cover such sins and
then the Lord WILL accept one's offerings who remains in such a
marriage? The scriptures show entirely a different picture than what is
being preached today in many pulpits.
Then
we have the example of Herod/Herodias-----many would say: "they divorced
civilly and then married each other, the Lord, though maybe not pleased
with how it transpired, forgives them".......... However, what does
scripture say? "Herod, it is NOT LAWFUL for you to have your brother's
wife!"............I do not see where John said to Herod, "just kneel
down here brother, confess your sin, then the Lord will allow you to go
on with your brother's wife............her marriage to Philip at that
point will become dissolved and she will then become YOUR
wife"...........
No,
we do not see such a thing. Instead, anger burned in the heart of the
adulteress to have their relationship spoken of in such a way.........so
much anger burned in her, she plotted to obtain the head of John. I see
that very same anger/spirit directed at those who quote the scriptures
in which the Lord has labeled relationships HE deems as sinful.
In
regards to NT teachings on divorce/remarriage, I believe it's pretty
clearly laid out that the Lord Himself regards remarriages while one has
a living spouse as ADULTERY. One cannot be in adultery AND in a lawful,
joined by God marriage.
I
think what also can be said is this: do we need an example of forsaking
sin in order to do it ourselves? I do not see examples of women getting
ready for an abortion getting off the table when conviction hits them in
the Bible. Yet, that IS the right thing to do in God's sight. I don't
see an example of a homosexual couple getting a "civil" divorce and
forsaking their relationship in scripture, yet I think we can agree that
this IS the correct thing to do in God's sight, since it is God Himself
who will not recognize this sinful relationship. He has spoken on
certain "marriages" contracted and labeled them
"adultery"..................what more do we need more in order to
repent?
Comment/question
I agree with your definition of repentance, but not the definition of
adultery that you used here. The difference is that I believe strongly
that the covenant of a 2nd marriage is binding even when it was entered
into in sin. Requiring someone to break that covenant would be wrong, so
breaking that covenant couldn't be required as an act of repentance. The
point I was making about repentance; however, was not directed towards
the spouse who broke the covenant, but at the spouse who was now unable
to reconcile the marriage because the vow was broken.
Response
What in scripture leads you to believe that the second vow, made one
when is NOT free to vow, is binding? Do you believe David was sinning in
taking back his wife Michal from her second husband?
See
What
about David & Bathsheba?
Comment/question
I think that you will find that it is equally hard to find any scripture
that explicitly calls for divorcing a spouse because the marriage
is considered "illegitimate".
Response
To be honest, there is MUCH more scripture to justify the leaving of a
adulterous union/marriage than there is of leaving fornication,
homosexuality, etc..........yet most in the church would have no problem
at telling those engaged in that type of immorality to forsake those
unions. Why then is there such a move to tell those whom Jesus says are
in adultery, that they should STAY in those relationships. Again, if one
is to put a vow as the be all end all, then it needs to be proven that a
vow made, while not free to make it, supercedes the original
vow.........the one God honors as lawfully made. And, in another vein,
one would need to prove, biblically, that God joins this new "union" He
calls sinful. If He doesn't join it, then the two are not ONE in
marriage in God's sight.
I
think the issue is that I can find no scriptural support for an idea
that a second marriage covenant is invalid, and in those instances where
a second marriage is alluded to in scripture, there does not seem to be
any indication that the covenant is considered invalid. What is
condemned very strongly in scripture is the divorce and remarriage, but
not the covenant of the marriage itself.ve divorce in the case of those
whom HE joined together is wrong/sin. The only passage we can find in
scripture in which God says that He hates divorce is in regards to a man
putting away his FIRST wife and then marries another (Malachi 2).
I believe it takes much more assuming to say that the relationship God
calls adultery changes into a lawful relationship when there is not 1
scripture to justify such a position, don't you?
Comment/question
I think the issue is that I can find no scriptural support for an idea
that a second marriage covenant is invalid, and in those instances where
a second marriage is alluded to in scripture, there does not seem to be
any indication that the covenant is considered invalid. What is
condemned very strongly in scripture is the divorce and remarriage, but
not the covenant of the marriage itself.
Response
Well, I can't convince you to take Jesus' words to heart on the nature
of that remarital relationship. For me, it's pretty clear though. It is
an invalid relationship in the Lord's eyes...........a sinful
relationship because the Lord sees the original couple as still bound
together----by Him.
Comment/question
This was in response to "another divorce will not cause any damage to
the Christian community". Tearing apart a happy family with loving
parents because someone believes that it is continuous adultery will
drive some further from the gospel.
Response
I don't think any of us who believe first marriages are binding until
death feel that another divorce will not cause damage. It sure
will........it will damage emotions, finances, mindsets, etc, but the
thing is, when we follow the Lord, even in those very hard things that
bring suffering to us/others, in the end, God will be glorified and
there will be TRUE healing for those who Love God.
Comment/question
There are plenty of other opportunities to show that God leads us
through the hard times.
Response
And many of us believe the Lord leads those who have been convicted of
being in adultery through the hard times which come from
repentance...........He leads them then to a "peaceful" place with
Him.......a place where one has a pure heart/conscience before Him.
Comment/question
As much as some don't want to admit it, to see someone who struggled for
many many years trying to hold a relationship together because it was
the Christian thing to do... and feeling sorry for them.., then after a
remarriage seeing them restored and whole in a loving relationship. Hmm,
might that not show them the Grace of God
Response
Some may look at it that way, but ultimately what does it show the
onlooker when they see a Christian give up on the one God joined them
to? What does it show them about God's longsuffering? What does it show
them about "enduring to the end"? The "world" teaches that we should do
all we can, then if we can do no more, it is then ok to move on. This is
a world lacking in faith. When we too act as the "world"..........and
the fact is that many "worldly"people are more longsuffering than those
who profess the name of Christ---------so how are we presenting an image
of God that is better than the "worlds" when we give up on sinful
spouses and seek others to fill their places?
Comment/question
I can not believe what I am reading here. Some here are adding to the
word of God words that Jesus never said AT ALL nor will you find
these words in the NT. prophet please show me where Jesus demands this
formal divorce as you say from a remarriage? Jesus did say go and sin no
more. He also said he did not condemn this woman. Yet you give her
Instructions? So where are these added words that you added in here
for Jesus saying He has said to formally divorce in a remarriage?
One is to repent, repentance is enough when one does not continue in the
same sin. The sexual relations must be abandon and that is it! That is
what the sin was. Did it ever occur to you that every believer is this
adulterous woman who also lived in sin? When you were forgiven Jesus
told you and everyone of us to sin no more. Do you sin everyday? Do you
have thoughts in your mind that are sin? Are you without sin? Are you
perfect? Jesus fulfilled the law yet you lay the law down on people?
God forbid! In your previous post prophet you sway in your
doctrine all who read your post can see this you have been talking
out two sides of your mouth saying one thing then saying another
bringing much confusion to the people in the body of christ. Do you sway
by the wind in every doctrine you preach? Just curious.
Response
I agree with you that Jesus spoke to the woman to go and sin no more. In
regards to an illicit remarriage, however, stopping the sexual activity
cannot encompass full repentance.........it is only partial repentance.
I've stated before that I could never tell a woman/man WHEN they should
leave the household, and disentangle oneself legally, but I will say
that it must be done.
If, as we believe, one is STILL married to the first spouse---in the
sight of the Lord---- does it make sense that a woman/man should then be
living with another man/woman, giving the impression to
others they are "married", living in lawful matrimony?
Adultery is so much more than just the sexual act itself..........it has
to do with joining with another who is not one's spouse--- in
mind/heart, etc. A Christian is not even to give the APPEARANCE of evil,
so to me, for prophet or any of us to counsel a person in an adulterous
marriage that they should take steps to legally and physically
disentangle themselves with one whom the Lord did NOT join them to, is
counsel based upon the ENTIRE Word of God. I know that it may be hard
for some due to financial concerns, concerns over children, hurting
those in the extended family, etc. Believe me, I never counsel "lightly"
in such cases, especially to women because I myself am a housewife and
know how HARD not having a man taking care of me/my children would be.
However, it truly does come down to this: if one does believe
they are living with someone who is NOT their lawful spouse,
because they already HAVE a lawful spouse in the Lord's eyes, it
stands to reason what the decision should be in such cases. The Lord is
faithful to care for those who obey Him, this I do believe.
Blessings........
Comment/question
With the utmost respect for those here I post this...
To say one must divorce because of previous marriages is completely and
utterly wrong. God hates divorce, why would I now do something God
hates, that NOW I am walking in His truth where before I was in the
world.
Response
When God speaks of hating divorce, He hates divorces of covenant spouses
(Mal. 2). We can find elsewhere in scripture where He does NOT hate the
putting away of spouses He did NOT join together (Ezra 9-10).
If Jesus says that a union is adultery because He does not view
the divorce as dissolving the union HE put together, why do we assume we
can then call it something different than He has called it? Scripture
teaches that when God joins two as ONE in marriage, the bond remains
until one of them dies, that is why He calls it adultery if one/both
join with others----because that bond has not been severed. We need to
be careful about calling "good" what God has not called "good", but
instead calls sin.
Comment/question
If you go and turn yourself over to the one you robbed and they have
forgiven you and removed the demand for a penalty to be paid because
they have put up the money to cover the theft, there is nothing more to
do than go on your way.
If you have stolen another's spouse and married them, then you turn
yourself into the Lord and seek His forgiveness. If He has forgiven you
and removed the penalty for your sin of adultery (death), then go on
your way and don't do it again in your current marriage.
Response
What if the person (brother/sister) whom one robbed does NOT forgive?
Would the offender give back/pay back in such cases?
Concerning the mindset about just going to God after a deed is done
AGAINST one's brother/sister: That is completely unbiblical. Jesus
taught that BEFORE any come to the altar, if someone has OUGHT against
them, they are to go and make it right with their brother/sister,
first............THEN, their offering will be accepted. We see
this scenario in Malachi 2 where the priest who divorced his covenant
wife and married another came to the altar..........and the Lord
rejected his offering.
Comment/question
So the challenge will also be put to you to find the Biblical
instruction anywhere that says a remarried couple should divorce upon
discovering their marriage has been conceived in sin.
Response
If God's judgment is that a person is with another who does not belong
to them (hence the relationship is adultery), and one comes to knowledge
of this, saying sorry, does not then turn that illicit relationship into
a lawful one, joined together by God. If the covenant spouses are still
alive, the original marriage is still binding in God's eyes.......and
that is clearly taught in God's Word.
Comment/question
Very often the stolen spouse does not want to be restored.
Response
This is very true, but then, the "stolen" spouse too is in sin and needs
to forsake their sin. "Want" does not dictate to God what is sin/not
sin. God tells us what is sin/not sin and we who love Him, adjust
ourselves as we are given truth/light about our sin.
Concerning the "stolen" spouse who DOES want to be restored----I am
seeing that MUCH now........as the stolen one now is looking at their
'non' covenant relationship as God sees it---sinful---and looking at
their covenant spouse as God views them(the wife/husband of their
youth----the wife/husband of the covenant. And I praise the Lord for
that!!! For many today are coming out of the darkness and into the light
concerning the practices they thought were "good", but God said were
evil (sin). Our children can only reap GOOD things from us turning from
our sinful ways.
Comment/question
Here's the problem I have with this. How do you define "stolen"? A woman
leaves her adulterous husband for example. She makes it clear to him
that she is not coming back and is filing for divorce. The divorce
becomes final and a few years later she marries another. Did that man
steal her?
Steal - to take (the property of another or others) without
permission or right, esp. secretly or by force:
Response
Adultery means one does not have the RIGHT to be joined
with the one they are joining with, so in effect, they ARE stealing what
does not belong to them. I know many who have taken a spouse who did not
belong to them who surely do NOT have permission from the
other spouse nor have been given this "right" from God.
Comment/question
Not
all marriages consists of a man and woman having sex. If in a
relationship where the man and woman are not having sex at all, but are
simply living together, would that be considered adulterous? Let's say
the man and woman have come to the knowledge of the truth, and because
of the truth have repented, and are no longer having any form of sexual
contact...is this considered adultery? Yes, in most cases there is some
temptation...but we are all tempted in some way or another are we not?
Does this mean that we are not to live together?
Response
Well, let me ask you this: How did Jesus define adultery? Did He believe
it ONLY encompassed the physical act? Let me also ask you this: If it is
wrong to have relations with another person (ie; in an adulterous
remarriage), is it then ok to for that married woman/man to live with
another when in the Lord's eyes they have a covenant spouse? In other
words, is it ok for a married woman(a woman who already has a covenant
spouse) to live with another man?
Comment/question
You
say that "Most Christians would not counsel such a thing", however
most Christians are judgemental at best...they do presume because
a couple is living together they must be having sex. That is
judging wrongly. What would Jesus say in such a case...where the man
and woman are content in living together? I don't see anywhere in the
Bible where the Lord prohibits a man and a woman from living together. I
only see where He says "He who is without sin among you, let him cast
the first stone."
Response
Ah, my husband and I talked about this very issue last night.......and
truth be told, there is no scripture which expressly forbids an
UNMARRIED woman and an UNMARRIED man from living together.
However, for a CHRISTIAN, we are told to "flee from ANY
"APPEARANCE" of evil. In today's culture (the Western culture), when a
man/woman live together, it DOES appear that they are living in sin.
If a woman says she has repented from remarital adultery, but refuses to
divorce that man she has been committing adultery with and refuses to
forsake living with him (giving the appearance to others that she IS his
wife), that type of "repentance" I cannot agree with. Giving up sexual
relations is the EASY part of repentance. Giving up the RELATIONSHIP and
all that goes with it outside of the sex is the HARD part------the
narrow path, in my opinion. To stay in such a relationship when the Lord
sees such a one as being married to another is wrong.............as it
is wrong for appearances' sake----because all those who look upon that
situation believe these two to be "married".
In effect, the one who stays who is convicted the relationship is wrong,
is one who is causing others to wrongly judge the relationship
(in this case, giving the apperance of evil is telling people that a
relationship with one who is not one's spouse in God's eyes is ok to be
stayed in).
Like I said before, all one needs to do in such a case is ask themself
this question: In the Lord's eyes (and that's all that really matters
here) is it ok for me to live with another man when I already have a
husband? For me, the answer is clear, but I understand for some it may
not be. Blessings............
Comment/question
I think you meant Mt. 19 and 1 Cor. 7. I think those passages
provide the clear biblical grounds for disolving a marrigage,
but both passages indicate pretty strongly that divorce is not something
we as a believer should choose in either of these cases, just an
acknowledgement that sometimes the disolution of a marriage is beyond
our control.
Response
You say you are not pro-divorce/pro-remarital adultery, yet, what you
say above is very telling about your real position on this topic. You
say that the Bible presents CLEAR biblical grounds to DISSOLVE a
marriage, yet the truth is, that there are passages which cause your
interpretation to come under question. And let's not forget the "fruit"
of your interpretation-----widespread destruction of marriages/families.
Surely, you do not believe this is what Jesus was allowing when you say
He allowed a marriage to be dissolved due to adultery? Remember, He
knows the future........He knows the power of the spoken word on
generations to come............50+divorce rate in the Western
World.........people swapping families, troubles abounding with such
things. Do you honestly believe this is God?
Comment/question
I have been pretty clear about where I stand on this issue. Just because
I believe that there are clear biblical standards for divorce, does not
mean that I believe that most divorces were justified by those
standards. Clearly divorce is a result of sin, and divorce always
requires at least one spouse to break their covenant in sin. From my
personal experices with couples who were divorcing I believe that most
of the time both spouses are in clear violiation of God's standards when
they choose to divorce. But, there are times when only one spouse
chooses to violate God's standards for marriage and breaks the covenant,
and it is for those circumstances the exception exists.
Response
The problem with your teaching/belief that ALL divorce is sin, is that
it is not backed up by scripture, benelchi. The men of Ezra
divorced their wives IN REPENTANCE----because their marriages
were NOT ordained by God-----they entered forbidden marriages and hence,
God's judgment came upon that nation---until they repented (and they
didn't just say "sorry" and then keep those wives either).
Comment/question
Those who would contemplate divorce because of this doctrine should
STOP. I appreciate the strong stand against divorce taken by most on
this forum, I just wish that stand was applied equally to all marriages
because I don't ever see divorce as a Godly solution.
Response
That's because divorce is NEVER a GODLY solution. And
truth be known, it is not the permanency of marriage "doctrine" that
leads people to forsake their adulterous unions, it is the WORD OF GOD,
which teaches that these unions are adultery. THAT
knowledge is what causes people to forsake those illicit relationships.
I would NEVER tell someone to go on my beliefs. Each person is
responsible before God to "study to show thyself approved". If someone
can find in scripture where the relationships Jesus called adultery are
NOT adultery, then they can walk in God's peace. However, you tell
people to walk in peace when there is NO evidence that such
relationships change into a lawful, joined by God marriage---before the
death of their lawful spouse. Pretty scary stuff to teach others, if you
are wrong.
Comment/question
Yes, but I think it would be far more scary I were wrong in my
advocation of a divorce that God did not condone.
Response
I beg to differ. Since scripture teaches that adulterers (actively
practicing in a lifestyle of "joining" with one who is not one's spouse)
shall not inherit the kingdom of God, I would think that those who
encourage what the Lord has called adultery to continue, are
those who are uplifiting what the Lord has called
sin-----causing the little ones to stumble.
If I and others who believe Jesus means what He says when people remarry
(that they are committing adultery), are wrong, and you are right, then
if someone did repent(divorce), according to your teaching, they could
remarry their covenant spouse(since there is no continual sin according
to your teaching) or they could remain unmarried. If I am wrong,
and you are right, the eternal state of those who divorce in repentance
won't be affected.
However, if you are wrong, and encouraging people NOT to forsake
relationships Jesus calls adultery, and the scriptures are true that
speak of adulterers not inheriting the
That is why I said your position is scary to me............especially
since there is no Word from our Lord that these marriages He called
adultery are no longer adultery-----while their spouse lives.
Comment/question
Because I view all divorce as wrong, when someone does choose to divorce
based on the idea that they are honoring God, I see that as a huge
tragedy!
Response
What DO you do with Ezra then? Do you think these men were wrong?
(See
Ezra Chapters 9 & 10 - Putting
Away Unlawful Marriages)
Comment/question
That is really a distortion of what has been said, I don't believe that
second marriages are more binding than first marriages, I believe that
both our equally binding! I also have never advocated for divorce in
either case. I believe that divorce in either case is WRONG, and
is the result of the sin of at least one spouse, if not both.
Response
Now I'm confused. BOTH marriages can't be equally binding.........unless
one believes polygamy is an honored by God practice.
Comment/question
That is only true if you believe that nothing can break a marriage
covenant, and I have made it clear that I don't believe that. No
marriage covenant should ever be broken, and if a marriage covenant is
broken it is always due to sin of at least one spouse. That is true
equally of first or second marriages.
Response
The problem you have with that is proving it scripturally. Hosea's wife
committed adultery........their covenant was NOT dissolved. Herodias
committed adultery with Herod..........her marriage to Philip was not
dissolved. Paul speaks on the bond of marriage in
Comment/question
I have said, and I will say it again that I believe that it is "terribly
sinful" to walk away from any marriage, period. To implicate
anything I have said with an idea that second marriages are better is a
gross misrepresentation of anything I have said. Please let's have an
honest discussion.
Response
I too want a very honest discussion. My comment to you was said due to
your statements that each marriage has equal value. In scripture, we
just do not find that, so in honesty, how can you make such a statement?
In scripture, we see that when a couple who is free to marry, comes
together in marriage, God joins them, taking two and making them into
one flesh.
In a remarriage, we have God, in the scriptures, tell us that such a
joining is sin. It is adultery. With that information in mind, how can
one then in honesty, say that the second marriage is the same to God as
the first? I gave you the examples in scripture where it clearly shows
that the second is NOT equal to God as the original marriage.
Comment/question
More correctly, in scripture you don't see second marriages as having a
valid covenant, but most Christians who have studied the bible have not
come toe the same conclusions in this regard
Response
It doesn't matter what conclusions we come to if we do not have the
scripture to back up those conclusions. You do not have scripture to
back up your conclusion that God sees a second union, one which He says
is adultery, as equal to the first one---the ONE He joined together.
Comment/question
Again most Christians who have studied these same passages would not
agree with you that all remarriage is sinful, nor would they agree that
remarriages are invalid because sin was involved in there inception.
Response
Again, the problem you have is saying that what God says is adultery, is
no longer adultery. You say "at the inception"..........yet, Jesus did
not say just the "act" of marriage was adultery, then the relationship
was now a lawful one..........He merely said that when someone puts away
their spouse and marries another, they commit adultery (joining with
someone who is not your spouse). How can one be joined in lawful
marriage AND be committing adultery in that very same act? Paul is very
clear that if a woman joins with another man while her husband lives she
SHALL BE CALLED AN ADULTERESS. Paul, the preacher of God's Grace, surely
would not forever label a woman such if she was not an adulteress (the
label, not a one time act). Paul also is clear in that same passage that
DEATH is what will sever that bond, not her adultery.
Comment/question
Malachi 2 - Again in every divorce the sin of at least one person was
involved, the issue is not that there was sin or not, divorce is always
wrong. The issue is whether the sin of one spouse can break the
covenant, and I believe that scripturally it can.
Response
I noticed you never answered my question: based upon Jesus' definition
of adultery, do you honestly believe He is giving license to chuck one's
marriage away due to that sin? As to your statement that "divorce is
always wrong", I don't know why you keep saying that. Scripture has
proven such a statement to be false (Ezra 9-10). The only divorce I can
find in scripture that is spoken about in a negative way is the putting
away of one's covenant spouse.
Comment/question
Not to be sidetracked, the point is, this passage (1 Corinthians 7) does
not give instruction in dealing with the matter of a former spouse who
does not return. If you see direction in this passage pertaining to
that, point it out. If you see a command in this passage telling the
remarried to divorce and return to the former, point it out. If you
cannot, why debate what was said about this passage...(that's a
rhetorical question).
Response
It doesn't matter that Paul doesn't address the "what ifs"..........He
already gave the command of the Lord and there were not "conditions" to
that given, so why do you feel that you must add conditions to change
the commands of the Lord in regards to the actions of the woman who
departs? We have already read in scripture that if a divorced woman
marries, she commits adultery. Paul need not add to the command on what
to do if one does separate from one's husband. We have been given the
FULL picture.
I still do not get your insistance that there must be PROOF shown in
scripture that a person has to forsake what the Lord has labeled a
sinful relationship. I think we already have been given all the
admonishments we need---though out all of God's Word, don't you?
Comment/question
Perhaps you feel comfortable with claiming that the Lord commands
remarrieds to divorce without any clear Scriptural backing but I do not,
therefore, because of the seriousness of this matter, I do believe if
what your teaching is true, it would have been addressed very
specifically. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of me addressing
the mild case of acne on your skin when you have life-threatening
cancer. Makes no sense.
Response
I feel very comfortable in sharing SCRIPTURE on what the LORD said about
such relationships. I also feel very confident in sharing what the
Lord's Word speaks on forsaking illicit relationships, or any known sin
for that matter. If the Lord Himself teaches that a divorce does not
dissolve what He joins together, then I am confident to speak forth
those same words. If He calls a remarriage adultery (because the
original marriage bond remains in spite of divorce), then I too am
confident to share His truth on the matter. If the Lord speaks through
Paul that even in the case of adultery, a marriage endures until death,
that truth too, I am confident to share with others.
What do you say concerning the man in I Corinthians 5 who is having
relations with his father's wife? Since Paul does not say EXACTLY to
this man what he should do in repentance, do you believe it ok for the
man to continue his relationship because leaving the relationship isn't
clearly, word for word, spoken? Should we "pray" about what his actions
need to be in repentance? Should another couple end up in the church in
a similar situation, should we "pray" about them because maybe the Lord
would allow THAT relationship, but the other He wouldn't? To me, the
reasoning you are using is foolishness. If the Lord has called a
RELATIONSHIP sin, then it is sin. The sin has to be forsaken. It ironic
to me that people take issue with what Jesus calls adultery (thinking
they can continue to commit adultery against one's own spouse), yet they
would never say the woman at the well should continue in the
relationship she is in.........that even though Jesus didn't tell her
what to do in repentance, it is clearly understood.
Comment/question
There are no Scriptures that instruct remarried believers to divorce.
Response
But there are numerous scriptures that show the new relationship is not
lawful in God's eyes----that those who are involved are committing
adultery against their covenant spouses by having relations with someone
who is not their spouse (the definition of adultery). See, you bear the
burden of proving what Jesus said is adultery, is really not adultery.
You have failed to prove this, biblically.
Comment/question
quote:
CindyW: What do you say concerning the man in I Cor. 5 who is having
relations with his father's wife? Since Paul does not say EXACTLY to
this man what he should do in repentance, do you believe it ok for the
man to continue his relationship because leaving the relationship isn't
clearly, word for word, spoken?
Here's what the Bible says
regarding the above case word for word, clearly and specifically:
Leviticus 18:8 (GWT)
Never have sexual intercourse with your stepmother. She is related to
you through your father.
(BBE)
And you may not have sex relations with your father's wife: she is your
father's
(KJV)
The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy
father's nakedness.
There are no Scriptures in either the OT or the NT that instruct
remarrieds to divorce. If there are, as I have done above, please post
them.
Response
Did you forget all the prohibition against adultery in the OT.......and
the penalty for adultery? I do not see anywhere in the OT where God sees
adultery as something that "joins" the adulterers in
marriage..........and in the NT Jesus does not teach that either. It
can't be adultery and lawful marriage at the same time.......or do you
say it can?
Comment/question
Here's some more from Leviticus 18
11. You may not have sex relations with your father or your
mother: she is your mother,
12. You may not have sex relations with your son's daughter or
your daughter's daughter
13. You may not have sex relations with men, as you do with women
14. And you may not have sex relations with a beast
Beastiality is not addressed in the NT at all!! How will you deal with
those you minister to who are engaging in this sin? You must go to the
OT to show them. I am sure you obey the above as well. Again we use the
whole counsel of the Word of God in matters of divorce and remarriage
because the whole Bible is profitable for teaching, training, rebuking
and correcting.
1 Timothy 1:8
We know that Moses' Teachings are good if they are used as they were
intended to be used...
Response
Again, OT scripture says, you shall not commit adultery. We see Jesus
saying the same thing. In the OT those who commit adultery were stoned
to death. Do you believe Jesus changed that to mean now adulterers can
continue their sinful relationships? Notice that Herod's marriage to
Herodias does not nullify her relationship to Philip-----she is STILL
called Philip's wife, no?
Comment/question
You tell me God hates divorce and I must honor my (1st marriage) vows,
but you have determined that my vows to my current husband are not
valid. Somehow they don't count and a divorce doesn't matter in this
case because God will bless this divorce, this abandoning of my spouse,
this breaking of my vows to him, God is ok with it this time when I have
absolutely no grounds for divorce. No adultery, no abandonment and no
abuse but a wonderful Christian home where we have managed to raise
wonderful children who are now saved.
You are messing with people's lives! Yes you need to come with something
more than conjecture when your attempting to prove that God is now a
destroyer of marriages!
You've got to be kidding me! This is NUTS to me!
Response
God is not a destroyer of marriages, He came to destroy the work of the
devil..........and adultery is such a work.......it is something that
many have entered into and the Lord desires to free them from this sin.
You call it "marriage", yet the Lord calls it adultery. Who is right?
The Truth is that God is a restorer of those marriages that have
suffered destruction----from within the marriage as well as from
without. check out this incredible testimony of restoration at the hands
of the Lord:
http://www.getreadyforlove.com:80/prisonofmyown.htm
Comment/question
Repeat this 100 more times. That won't change anything. I'm not
instructing remarried folks to divorce, you are. Your advocating
divorce, not me.
Response
You are quite wrong. The burden of proving that what Jesus said is
adultery is NOT adultery is up to you. I am in line with what Jesus
taught. You are not. You are teaching staying in a sinful relationship
is ok, because one has a piece of paper. Jesus said that relationship is
ADULTERY...........why? Because obviously the previous union HE joined
together is NOT dissolved. I stand by what I have spoken because I know
it lines up with TRUE repentance. What you teach is not true repentance.
Comment/question
It is you who has not shown from Scripture that this is the instruction
of the Lord. Why not just say that? Why is it so difficult to say, "I
don't any Scriptures that explicitly and directly say this is what
should be done, but I believe this is the right action to repent." That
would be the truth!
Response
Try as you may, you will not be able to get around the multitude of
teachings that call people OUT of their sin. Just because the particular
ACT of repentance isn't spoke of in regards to an immoral relationship,
the fact remains that Jesus did label this particular sin. What one does
in response to His labeling is up to them. They can change the label,
but that doesn't mean God does.
Comment/question
Are there instructions anywhere in the Bible for forsaking all immoral
relationships? Does it tell someone who is cheating on their spouse
exactly how to get out of the relationship Jesus calls adultery? Does it
tell the homosexual how to forsake the relationship that God calls
sinful? There are certainly many who minister to homosexuals and share
God's message of love and forgiveness while instructing them how to
forsake their sinful relationships and the healing power of God that
they can change. Everyone hates when this topic gets brought up. Don't
say this is not the same- immorality is immorality. We can't single some
sinners out. That would be hypocritical.
Response
I am in full agreement with you. (name deleted) somehow thinks remarital
adultery fits some special category of allowable immoral relationships.
She's not alone though, as there are many who teach that-----including
John Piper who even teaches marriage IS until death---there are no
allowances for remarriage. I can't quite understand his
position.
In any case, as you know, many believe one can stay in "that type of
sinful relationship", but the same people wouldn't dare say the same
about the other types of immoral relationships you mention above.
Comment/question
What I am saying is that if you have remarried, do not divorce again.
Stay in your marriage and obey the Lord. Be faithful and committed to
your current spouse. Whatever sins you committed that attributed to your
divorce, do not do them again. Be at peace with your former spouse to
the best of your ability. That is what I'm saying. This is not giving a
greenlight to anyone to divorce. This is acknowledging that another
marriage has taken place. We are not talking about a man or woman
leaving their dating partners. We are talking about a marriage.
Response
No, you ARE giving a green light for divorce..........frivilous divorce.
"you shouldn't divorce for such and such reasons, but if you
do................God's grace covers it". Did you not read what Paul
wrote about such mindsets: "God forbid!!!" It was unthinkable that
people were thinking to use God's Grace in such a way.
You say you have "standards" in regards to the reasons for divorce and
then remarriage, but they are not black and white. You believe that each
person must determine for themselves if God allows them to divorce and
then remarry. You also don't believe the original covenant mate has a
thing to say about how their life goes. One person has the power to
permanently sever a marriage bond...........yet, you have nothing in the
Word of God to support such views. The Lord has spoken quite clearly in
Mal. 2 that He is WITH the forsaken covenant spouse. He has also shown
that repentance does not entail coming to the altar with tears---such
EMPTY repentance is rejected by Him. He has also shown that
reconciliation/restitution must take place BEFORE any thing will be
accepted by Him. He calls the first spouse, the covenant spouse, not the
second.
We are NOT talking about a lawful marriage, but adultery.
There is nothing in scripture to show us that the remarriage is anything
different to God than extra marital adultery. The fact that society
accepts it does not change what God says about such relationships.
Comment/question
First of all, no one here knows the whole story behind this and we
are not at liberty to get into the details. Anyone can get on here and
present themselves as the victim of an unjust divorce, when they could
have actually been the cause of it. We can't know. So the "victim" comes
on here and tells us how she/he teaches the children about the wrongness
of mommy or daddy, from their point of view. It may be that the
husband/wife did leave and divorce frivolously. We are not privy to that
information. We tend to automatically take the side of one party without
even fully knowing what happened in that marriage. What if he/she's not
innocent? What if he/she's in the house behind closed doors acting like
a devil? They always feel wronged when the spouse leaves but you hardly
hear about their unfaithfulness. You hardly hear about how they treated
their spouse and all the ways they broke their vows. We don't get that
story. So now that they have repented they feel they are entitled to
have their spouse back! Then they will use Scripture to try and force
somebody to come back to them that they have severly wounded.
It's so easy to focus on the one who left and divorced. Claiming that
they are the reason the marriage ended. That's alot of baloney
sometimes. That's why folks should mind their business and leave
judgment to God because only He knows the whole story.
Response
You know what (name deleted), we ALL are sinners and in
most all divorces there is plenty of sin to go around. Sometimes the so
called "innocent" one has caused MUCH pain in their marriage and in
return, the "guilty" one responds by divorcing...........and then
compounding their sin, by getting themselves into an ongoing adulterous
relationship (through remarriage or extramarital).
The fact remains that God's Word says what it does. Do some people need
to separate due to continual unrepentant sin? I do see the need for that
and God appears to have made concessions for that(I Cor.7:10-12).
However, what God did not make concessions for was for the
"offended/offender" spouse to enter into another relationship,
committing adultery. You have not proven your case.
Do you honestly believe that hardness of heart is ok in regards to one's
covenant spouse? Even if the Lord changes an abusive man, making him
into the image of Jesus, is it AOK with you for that wife God joined him
to, to now reject this man of God? For a Godly woman, there is no
choice...........there is only the desire to walk in accordance with the
Will of God........to walk as Jesus walks.............not as sinful
man/woman walks.
Comment/question
As I see it those here on this forum who are advocating a "frivolous" divorce, are those who place absolutely no value in the covenant of a second marriage and advocate for a divorce in this situation.
Response
I place no value on such relationships because the Lord
Himself calls such relationships adultery. Do I care about the PEOPLE in
those relationships? Yes. I have heard from women and men in adulterous
remarriages who are GRIEVING because they either disobediently went
against God's Word, or just didn't know what God's Word taught on
divorce/remarriage. There are some real painful messes to untangle.
Why are people getting into these relationships-----because churches are
not teaching the truth. What some are teaching is a "hard" word, but
then they do not follow through. They teach, "The Lord
commanded.............but if you disobey, it's ok............" That's
like teaching our children: "you should not have premarital
sex...........but if you do, here's the pill so you won't get
pregnant"............That completely nullifies, "you should
not"..............it opens a door that God never intended to be opened.
Comment/question
Many of us shown many verses which stand in contradiction to your position
Response
No, all you have shared is Mt. 19:9 and what you believe 'porneia'
to mean. Can you show anywhere in the NT where remarriage is honored and
not called sin?
Comment/question
and I am convinced if their were a verse that said "Do not Divorce your second husband" you would find someway to ignore that one two.
Response
No, if scripture taught that every marriage after a
divorced entered into was binding until a divorce, then I would not
ignore such a passage. However, that is not what scripture teaches.
Jesus taught that divorce does NOT dissolve what He joined together.
That is why the second relationship is adultery to Him.
Comment/question
As it stands, there is absolutely no verse in the bible that asks that we divorce (from a 2nd marriage), but you still advocate that position.
Response
I advocate true believers forsaking illicit relationships
as defined by our Lord in true repentance.
Comment/question
I believe it is wrong! The fact is if you have already remarried, why are you asking? What are you going to do divorce your 2nd wife b/c you shouldn't have married her? NO! I believe this is truly up to God. If you have a true relationship with the Father than you should be asking him not us! God WILL let you know what to do! There is some things that is good to ask for advice, but some subjects are truly up to what God thinks not us!
Response
It is true that none of us can MAKE another do what we
believe to be truth, but we ARE called to speak the truth in love to
those who are seeking it. Many read here but do not post. They are
questioning what they read in scripture. They are looking at their own
lives which appear to be at odd with Jesus' teachings. Jesus says that
remarriage=adultery (which means one has not been freed from the the
bond of marriage though a divorce has taken place). We must, if we are
His children, speak the Word of God because we believe obedience to the
Word brings freedom and His peace into one's life. Blessings.........
Comment/question
If if someone does remarry... should they should divorce their second spouse?
Response
What does Jesus say? "whosoever divorces his wife and
marries another commits adultery and whosoever marries one divorced
commits adultery". It appears from Jesus' words that He does not see a
divorce as dissolving what He put together----hence it is adultery to
remain with the one God has NOT joined you to.
Comment/question
The point is that there are tragic consequences to being wrong period, and it is unfair to present this belief as if there isn't an impact for being wrong if you hold to your belief.
Response
I don't think any of us who believe Jesus and Paul taught
marriage to be lifelong have said that there wouldn't be an impact if
we are wrong. What we have stated is that any impact would only
effect THIS earthly life.
However, on the other hand, scripture teaches that those who practice
sin(adultery being one of them), will not inherit the kingdom of God. So
if one is to encourage those in the sin of adultery to STAY in their
sin(by telling them that what Jesus called a sinful relationship really
isn