"Look at the legalized adultery we call divorce.
Men marry one wife after another and are still admitted into good
society; and women do likewise. There are thousands of supposedly
respectable men in American living with other men's wives, and thousands
of supposedly respectable women living with other women's husbands."
- R. A. Torrey From R.A. Torrey's book How to Pray, pages 94-95
R.A. Torrey (1856-1928) was a very well-known Christian writer,
evangelist, pastor, graduate of Yale University, and was also the
superintendent of Moody Bible Institute for 19 years.
TRINITY BARS THE
DIVORCED.; No Remarriage in the Church or Any of the Chapels.
The clergy of Trinity Church announced yesterday that under no
circumstances will divorced persons be married by any of the clergy of
that Episcopal parish, nor will such marriages be permitted either in
the church at Wall Street and Broadway or in any one of the parish's
eight chapels. The announcement was as follows:
View full article New York Times
December 7, 1904, Wednesday
Comment/question
Our Father (God) does not and never will sanction a marriage between good and
evil.
Response
He doesn't desire it, but He sure acknowledges the validity of such a
union.......... I Corinthians 7:12-14.
Comment/question
Are you trying to tell me that God would acknowledge a marriage where the
husband decides he wants to become a woman and has a sex change operation? You
do realize that this happens and the couple stays married?
how about the marriage where the
couple are into "swinging"? You know Oprah did a show on these couples and they
are perfectly comfortable with their mates being intimate with others. In fact,
they encourage it as a way to make marriage better. Do you honestly think God
looks down and puts His stamp of approval on marriages like this?
Response
I didn't say that God thinks the actions WITHIN the marriage are good. I
said He see such marriages as VALID marriages. You seem to be saying that such
marriages are not valid due to sin within the marriage, correct? The only
marriages I can see that are not valid scripturally are those marriages in which
one or both partners are not free to marry each other.
Comment/question
You did say this correct?
“To the contrary, Paul acknowledges that the union of believer and
unbeliever is "joined" by God and the unbeliever is sanctified due to the
believing spouse.”
I have just shown you what you asked,
“if you can show me how that (adulterous) sinful relationship now has changed
into a lawful one”
Response
Ah, but that's not what I asked, is it? I asked for you to show me that the
relationship of a couple who are committing adultery (meaning they are joining
with another's spouse) changes somehow through confession into a marriage joined
by God.
You see, we already have a precedent that shows an unbeliever and believer can be joined by God...........but can you show me how one that is bound in marriage to their covenant spouse, commits adultery with another, is then joined by God to the one they are committing adultery with?
Comment/question
The passages you offered in Malachi 2 and in Ezra were unlawful and sinful and
shows a clear picture in opposite of 1 Corinthians 7 in Christ, Perhaps you should ask
Jesus why a sinful relationship between unbelievers and believers are now
sanctified in Him, which was not seen in Mal 2 and in Ezra.
Response
The issue was not so much of the priest who joins with an unbeliever as it
was with the putting away of one's covenant spouse----the wife of one's youth,
in order to marry another. See, the big issue here is whether one is even free
to marry in the first place. Two singles (never married or widowed) ARE ALWAYS
free to marry. That is not the case with persons who are divorced while lawfully
married. Notice I do not place all divorced persons in the same category. Some
are divorced that were Unlawfully joined. In other words, they in marrying
someone divorced, were committing adultery. The Unlawfully joined ARE free to
get married again since their first marriages were not "joined" by God, but
declared by Him to be adultery.
Comment/question
If you would stop twisting what I have already offered
and apply the correct principals then you would see that I never said adultery
was lawful, and I never said remarriage was a sinful relationship.
In short view…
I said the remarriage, for the lack of the correct
word marriage, is a lawful marriage as are all marriages are between sinners and
between saints as established in the beginning… as Jesus said. And I believe I
gave the scripture that basically proved this in Romans,
Response
I never stated that you said remarriage was sinful. You obviously do not
believe Jesus meant what He said. As for the scripture in Romans that proves
what you believe, I don't believe that to be true. The passage Paul spoke in
Romans 7:2-3 shows that not to be the case. DEATH dissolves a marriage and allows
for a lawful remarriage to take place. If death has NOT occurred, then the one
remarrying will be called an adulterer/adulteress----present tense.
Comment/question
The absolute dictates that if one divorces the current to go back to the
former while the current is a lawful, then according to Jesus, a divorce can not
be for anything other than sexual immorality. PERIOD.
This means one can not divorce the
current spouse for any other reason, because the marriage is just as lawful as
the first, and is bound by the very same laws. That is why it is called
adultery, there has to be a legal reason to name it adultery.
Response
Again, then you believe ALL marriages are lawful.......incestuous, etc and
cannot be forsaken because you believe the Lord "joins" those and prohibits ALL
divorce?
Comment/question
This is why Paul said, one, or in truth “both spouses”, must “remain
unmarried” in order to be reconciled, which means no contamination, other wise
it is an abomination to the Lord.
Response
Interesting..........Gomer was taken back by Hosea and this at the Lord's
leading.
Comment/question
Do you really believe God has signed off on every marital choice made? It is
allowed, you can marry whomever you choose in obedience to scripture or not. But
doesn't mean every marriage you see has been what God would deem as suitable for
them.
Response
When it comes to 2 people that are free biblically to marry? Yes, I believe
God "joins" them as One as Jesus teaches. As far as those who enter into illicit
relationships as defined by Jesus, no, I don't believe He signs off on those
relationships. They are sin. Many people seem to have the notion that it is
quite ok with the Lord to keep trying to find the right mate until we "get it
right"----til we find that person who fulfills us. I can't seem to find any
scripture which leads me to believe this mindset. As a matter of fact, it
appears that biblically speaking that some may have a real hard road to haul and
that it most certainly is ordained of God. Maybe some of us have a hard lot
because we NEED to have a hard lot-----for spiritual growth---for the kingdom's
sake.
Instead of plowing ahead, many give up because it is "too hard". Again, I can't seem to find that mindset in scripture either. Instead, we find that "those who persevere to the end shall be saved"..........The Lord clearly said concerning the other end of the spectrum.........that He has no pleasure in them that "shrink back".
Comment/question
OK, so then does the spouse who is now born again, go back to the
unbelieving 1st marriage spouse? Wouldn't that be contrary to "do not be yoked
with an unbeliever? Please clarify....and the comment about "divorcing is ok due
to spouse immorality"--, have you researched the 2 part Jewish marriage, and
what "pornia" and "adultery" really mean in those true contexts? It then means
no divorce after consummation or 2nd part, but during the betrothal, 1st part a
man could give her a writ of divorce (only here) for unchastity, pornia. Changes
everything doesn't it? Check it out,
Response
As to the going back to an unbelieving spouse, if one is "JOINED" by God
already, what changed, if a divorce didn't dissolve the covenant? They are still
married in the sight of God.
Comment/question
My thought is that if one has ever been "labeled" or guilty of
adultery that God can forgive and remove that sin. If one is no longer
guilty in God's eyes how can another claim that a marriage bound by God
(especially if God never recognized the 1st to an unbeliever) be
adulterous?
Response
God very much DOES recognize a marriage between a believer and
unbeliever, otherwise such a marriage would be called fornication, and
the children born of such a marriage, children of fornication---yet, we
do not see that in scripture (I Corinthians 7:13-15). If one has been
guilty of adultery, yes, the Lord will forgive such a one WHEN they
forsake the illicit relationship. It can only be illicit in God's eyes
because the person/person's involved are ALREADY joined to another in
God's eyes. There is absolutely no indication in scripture that God
will, upon confession of guilt, dissolve the marriage He joined together
(rip apart the ONE He created), and then join the two who were
previously spoken of by Him as being in adultery. The only time we see
that God WILL join two that were previously in adultery is when the
original spouse(s) pass away and the "left" one is then freed to be with
another (Romans 7:2-3, I Corinthians 7:39).
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A Preacher's Repentance From Adulterous Remarriage.
The Testimony of J.M Humphrey
Tony Sexton's Repentance From Remarriage Adultery
More Testimonies of Repentance From Adulterous Remarriage & Messages of Encouragement
Frequently Asked Questions, Comment, Arguments About Marriage Divorce & Remarriage
Sermons & Radio Broadcasts on marriage, divorce, remarriage & more.
Orville Swindoll
A
Fellowship, Support & Discussion Forum
Theological Foundations
has an online fellowship and discussion forum for those who
are standing for their covenant marriages and for those who
have repented of adulterous remarriages.
The Hosea Project is an international, nondenominational
effort by volunteers to contact each Pastor and leader of
the Christian Church worldwide with this message of
repentance and restoration.
Listen to the Hosea Project message
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I do NOT in any way endorse the entirety of a number of these sites below, nonetheless, they may contain useful information and/or resources.
Critique
of David Instone-Brewer on Divorce
By Dr. Leslie McFall
Former lecturer in Hebrew and Old Testament. Now a full-time researcher in
Biblical Studies.
Former Research Fellow at Tyndale House Library (Cambridge, England).
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